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PSA: One-tap capture on astrals 25% more expensive than manual

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  • PSA: One-tap capture on astrals 25% more expensive than manual

    The more observant among you might have already noticed that when using one-tap capture for astrals you don't receive any points for misfortunes. I reported this as a bug months ago and the response I got was "this is intended". Okay, fair enough. If that was the only difference between one-tap and manual though then I'd happily stick with one-tap because from my tests that only amounts to spending 3% more gold for the same amount of xp. What I've found though is that not only do you miss points for misfortunes, but you actually get lower quality astrals when using one-tap, so less blues and more greens and greys.

    Now that we only have one world boss attempt per day, it's even more important to be making the most of your gold, so for those who weren't aware just how bad one-tap is I'm telling you now, you'll use 25% more gold than doing it manually.

    I synthesise blue and up and sell greys and greens. These are the collective results:



    The last column gives the gold per xp after spending points on energines/energy stars. Ignore the Grand Total row, it's meaningless in this case. I could have had a larger sample size for one-tap, but I'd already noticed before that it was costing me about 450-500gp per xp before I decided to actually recorded it properly. For anyone who can't see the image:

    One-tap: 457.8 gold per xp
    Manual: 370.1 gold per xp

    That makes one-tap 23.7% more expensive in this sample.


    Anyways, my original intention when I started collecting data for manual capture wasn't this. In fact I wanted to find the drop rate of different astrals at different levels and the probability of progressing onto the next light. It was quite slow to collect this information, so I only have data on 1375 astral captures, but it's enough to reveal a pattern. Here's my raw data:



    The rows with "one-tap" show what the results would be if one-tap only omitted points for misfortunes, but as I've now found out, is not true. I always moved onto the next light when it lit up in order to see the probability of progressing on to the next one. I'm going to make the assumption that the numbers used to determine the chances will be "nice", so what these results reveal is that you have the following chance of progressing from the previous light to:

    Level 2: 1/3
    Level 3: 1/3
    Level 4: 1/3
    Level 5: 1/4

    What this results in is there being a 1 in 108 chance to reach the final light, starting from the beginning.

    Next observation. Only the first two lights can give misfortunes, and the last two lights always give at least a blue. Once I noticed this I adjusted my input method by deleting the redundant buttons so that my input panel looked like this:



    I've never seen a red come from anything other than the last light in all my time doing astrals so just took it to be safe to assume that nothing else can give a red. Anyway, here are the probabilities that I've gotten so far for each colour astral at each level.

    Level 1: Misfortune - 45.6% Green - 54.4%
    Level 2: Misfortune - 26.9% Green - 30.2% Blue - 42.9%
    Level 3: Green - 12.7% Blue - 75.5% Purple - 11.8%
    Level 4: Blue - 73.5% Purple - 23.5% Orange - 2.9%
    Level 5: Blue - 55.6% Purple - 44.4%

    Up to level 3, I think this amount of data is enough to make some assumptions (I don't feel like doing any real statistics on this). I'd say that misfortunes have a 45% chance and greens have a 55% chance at level 1. Not sure yet about level 2, but I think it's clear that at level 3, greens and purples both have a 12.5% chance while blues make up the other 75%. I'd probably also go out on a limb and say that level 4 gives 75% blue, but don't have enough information to say anything about the other types of astrals.

  • #2
    Thank you very much to share this with us.

    I think this **** game hide many such things ON PURPOSE.

    Like the wing status even lv9 wings only get 2% extra enhancement. I reported to customer service that its wrong in June 2014. They reply me everything was correct, it should be like that. After 6 month, they start to do something (just because no one upgrade wings anymore). But so far, there attribute calculation is still wrong.

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    • #3
      Oh is the attribute calculation still wrong? Some things aren't affected by the wings like the extra MATK from fate and there might be other things too so it's difficult to work it out without scrutinising it in detail and it just doesn't seem worth the effort. I'm never going past level 3 wings anyway.

      Yea, there's a lot of things that seem deliberately misleading. I fell for the level 3-5 gem packs before, but it's pretty clear now that 9 times out of 10 you get a level 3 gem from them. Clothing synthesis rates are also just given as "good" and "low" so you never know how low it really gets. All the promotional packs are the same too, giving a list of items you can get and having ridiculously rare items of clothing or mounts in them. That's one of the ways that they can make you spend so much money, by making it impossible for you to calculate how much you want to spend. I really like to plan things out and know things in detail, but this game makes that pretty much imposible.

      The one thing that actually seems to be accurate though is the fate wheel, where the sizes of the sections on the wheel are surprisingly close to the actual chances of landing on them.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Twiggled View Post
        Oh is the attribute calculation still wrong? Some things aren't affected by the wings like the extra MATK from fate and there might be other things too so it's difficult to work it out without scrutinising it in detail and it just doesn't seem worth the effort. I'm never going past level 3 wings anyway.

        Yea, there's a lot of things that seem deliberately misleading. I fell for the level 3-5 gem packs before, but it's pretty clear now that 9 times out of 10 you get a level 3 gem from them. Clothing synthesis rates are also just given as "good" and "low" so you never know how low it really gets. All the promotional packs are the same too, giving a list of items you can get and having ridiculously rare items of clothing or mounts in them. That's one of the ways that they can make you spend so much money, by making it impossible for you to calculate how much you want to spend. I really like to plan things out and know things in detail, but this game makes that pretty much imposible.

        The one thing that actually seems to be accurate though is the fate wheel, where the sizes of the sections on the wheel are surprisingly close to the actual chances of landing on them.
        The lv3-5 gem pack is definitely a crap. I tried in December more than 200 packages, all lv 3, not a single lv4 or lv5. Later on I also get it (from activities), so total like 300, only 1 lv 4, rest all lv 3. On the contrary, I get some lv5 gems from the lv1-5 pack.

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        • #5
          I recently got asked if it was better to synthesise greens or sell them. I've always sold them without really giving it too much thought because that was what was recommended to me when I started playing, but using the results from above it's possible to work out which is better and it turns that actually, selling or synthesising greens makes basically no difference. 360.7 gold per xp selling greens, and 360.4 gold per xp synthesising greens.

          In the long run you might get a little more xp selling greens because you get more chances at higher level astrals which can include an energine, but if you already have all the astrals that you want, just synthesise the green because the xp gained is pretty much the same. Synthesising greens is also a lot faster meaning that you can burn through your gold really quickly without having to resort to one-tap.

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          • #6
            I always assumed the reason 1 tap was more expensive is because it was automatically selling and replacing all misfortunes in the background.. It never occurred to me I wasn't getting the points for them. If that's true then 1 tap really does suck and it's only for the impatient players

            EDIT: to follow up on selling/synthesising green astrals I'll give you my collected data.
            (Each astral is synthesised into a single astral to get a value for xp consumption, I called these xp pearls).
            Spending 1mil (reinvested) synthesising green+ resulted in, on average, 2400xp pearl and + 300 pts
            Spending 1mil (reinvested) synthesising blue+ resulted in, on average, 1900xp pearl and +750 pts
            The gain of 500xp for the price of 450pts is better than the price of energine at 1000pts so it's my belief for the purposes of levelling astrals it's best to synthesise green astrals.

            Comment


            • #7
              Your data is fine but you got confused somewhere. Using your first data on auto tap, you used 3.5 mil gold to make 6980 xp and 1497 exchange pts. Since using exchange points for energine is 1 xp per 2 exchange points, you can figure 1497 points is worth 748.5 xp. We will round up, and add up all xp. 749 + 6980 = 7729 total xp gained. 7729 total xp / 3.5 mil gives you a ratio of how much experience you make over million gold spent. So 2208 xp per gold on auto.

              Using your second set of data, you spent 8.65 mil gold to make 12410 xp and 5197 exchange points. Converting exchange points to xp, 5197 / 2 is 2548.5 xp. 12410 + 2549 is 14959 total xp. 14959 total xp / 8.65 mil gold = 1730 xp per million.

              This is the ratio of how much xp is gained per million spent, so you would want a higher ratio! Auto definitely earns you more xp per gold spent, which is what you want. Also FYI, synth the greens too. Your xp per gold ratio will increase quite a bit. I avg 2600 xp per million auto tapping and snything greens.

              As to why this is so? Since you are definitely missing out on exchange points doing auto, the only logical conclusion is the astral drop rate is higher when you auto tap.

              Comment


              • #8
                I reciieve on average 2800 xp per million gold reselling green astrals.

                Originally posted by DWreck View Post
                Your data is fine but you got confused somewhere. Using your first data on auto tap, you used 3.5 mil gold to make 6980 xp and 1497 exchange pts. Since using exchange points for energine is 1 xp per 2 exchange points, you can figure 1497 points is worth 748.5 xp. We will round up, and add up all xp. 749 + 6980 = 7729 total xp gained. 7729 total xp / 3.5 mil gives you a ratio of how much experience you make over million gold spent. So 2208 xp per gold on auto.

                Using your second set of data, you spent 8.65 mil gold to make 12410 xp and 5197 exchange points. Converting exchange points to xp, 5197 / 2 is 2548.5 xp. 12410 + 2549 is 14959 total xp. 14959 total xp / 8.65 mil gold = 1730 xp per million.

                This is the ratio of how much xp is gained per million spent, so you would want a higher ratio! Auto definitely earns you more xp per gold spent, which is what you want. Also FYI, synth the greens too. Your xp per gold ratio will increase quite a bit. I avg 2600 xp per million auto tapping and snything greens.

                As to why this is so? Since you are definitely missing out on exchange points doing auto, the only logical conclusion is the astral drop rate is higher when you auto tap.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Oops. You're right DWreck, there's a mistake in my table. But the conclusion is still the same.

                  Actually there were a few mistakes. The first mistake was the total xp for manual being lower than it should have been, the other is me being stupid enough to take an average of averages and somehow thinking that was the overall average (if you a test of 1000 captures an average 400 gold/xp, then do a test of 10 captures and average 800 gold/xp, your overall average isn't going to be 600 gold/xp).

                  This one is now correct: http://imgur.com/fKzADuB

                  My first mistake btw was having cell G7 blank in this table: http://imgur.com/xNjyEfc The Astro tab is where I did the really slow astral by astral data collecting and that row is just pulling the data from that tab, but I forgot to make it pull out the xp gained.

                  So in summary, selling greens:
                  Auto - 456 gold per xp
                  Manual - 369 gold per xp

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Twiggled View Post
                    Oops. You're right DWreck, there's a mistake in my table. But the conclusion is still the same.

                    Actually there were a few mistakes. The first mistake was the total xp for manual being lower than it should have been, the other is me being stupid enough to take an average of averages and somehow thinking that was the overall average (if you a test of 1000 captures an average 400 gold/xp, then do a test of 10 captures and average 800 gold/xp, your overall average isn't going to be 600 gold/xp).

                    This one is now correct: http://imgur.com/fKzADuB

                    My first mistake btw was having cell G7 blank in this table: http://imgur.com/xNjyEfc The Astro tab is where I did the really slow astral by astral data collecting and that row is just pulling the data from that tab, but I forgot to make it pull out the xp gained.

                    So in summary, selling greens:
                    Auto - 456 gold per xp
                    Manual - 369 gold per xp
                    I get the opposite results in my own data, I get nowhere near that much xp doing it manually. I get much more doing auto. Also if you want to get a good average, average the ratios. I like figuring how much xp i gain per gold spent (xp/gold), but you seem to like the opposite (gold/xp). Works the same either way, just with your calculations the smaller the average the better.

                    You should try synthesizing your greens. I get much more that way also, instead of selling greens like your method. Track that data a little and see if you don't get an even lower xp/gold ratio. Also i think converting the exchange points into xp gives you a better picture of your actual gain from various methods.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DWreck View Post
                      Also i think converting the exchange points into xp gives you a better picture of your actual gain from various methods.
                      Already factored that in

                      I'm working on the guild mount at the moment so not doing astrals, but once I finish it (44m/50m atm) I'll start keeping track of my astral gains again and I'll be synthesising the greens this time like I've been doing lately. Will post an update again in a few weeks or a month or so... or something

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