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Question and Answer on Class Balance between Cosmos and Frostybear

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  • L0wie
    replied
    Originally posted by Frosty_bear View Post
    Example

    In Lynch NM the first 2 bosses can be cleared with a knight tank. The hard part is the final boss because it cant be slowed. You will need a lot dps to deal with final boss before it gets buffed.
    In this case we see that a knight tank gets replaced for a more damage class like an Archer that also build up his HP, PDEF but still does alot more dmg then a tank build knight.

    With an archer as tank you can clear lynch nm with 80k-90k br
    With a tank knight this group needs to be higher to compensate the knight tank low dps 90k-100k br (or higher didnt see a group with knight tank clear this mpd yet)

    So this makes it easier to replace a knight with a more dps class to make a cleared run.
    If question in dps maybe u must build yourself for dps? Using crit gems and spam with trashers?

    Leave a comment:


  • Frosty_bear
    replied
    Example

    In Lynch NM the first 2 bosses can be cleared with a knight tank. The hard part is the final boss because it cant be slowed. You will need a lot dps to deal with final boss before it gets buffed.
    In this case we see that a knight tank gets replaced for a more damage class like an Archer that also build up his HP, PDEF but still does alot more dmg then a tank build knight.

    With an archer as tank you can clear lynch nm with 80k-90k br
    With a tank knight this group needs to be higher to compensate the knight tank low dps 90k-100k br (or higher didnt see a group with knight tank clear this mpd yet)

    So this makes it easier to replace a knight with a more dps class to make a cleared run.

    Leave a comment:


  • Frosty_bear
    replied
    Knights can invest in a Mire rune for the same effect to "replace" Deep Freeze
    On mobile version Knights doesnt have a rune named Mire (Asked Cosmos about it and it seems still locked for mobile version) This issue is known by dev team.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest started a topic Question and Answer on Class Balance between Cosmos and Frostybear

    Question and Answer on Class Balance between Cosmos and Frostybear

    Hey everyone, I was having a question and answer type of a discussion with Frostybear relating to his (and others) complaints about knights and we decided to share our private discussion with everyone for (1) people to learn and (2) for people to discuss, so here it is:


    Hi Cosmos,

    Alot high br knights quitting the game because they feel useless in mpd.
    Most groups bring archers as tank in mpd they have more good mpd skills then a knight. We also see that archers with lower block blocks more often then a knight in mpd. I almost never see a knight blocking an attack.
    Knights really needs more skills and lower cd.

    Kind regards,
    Frostybear

    Hi Frostybear,
    This is a topic that has been discussed for many months. I, personally, am in the camp which believes that knights are disadvantaged, but the other camp also has lots of supporters. That said, some of your points are not-so-correct:

    - If the archer can tank instead of knight then either the dungeon is too low or the knight is too low
    - A knight in front with Agoran and Apollo shields is a pretty solid tank (knight also gets a lot more healing from mage's healings and gets damage reduction and crit reduction)
    - I cannot believe that archers block more than knights; so unless you have some solid proof this is a myth.

    So I understand partly where you are coming from, but not the points that you wrote.

    If you have some proof then we can definitely discuss and report it.

    Let me know,
    GM Cosmos

    Hi Cosmos,

    An Archer can be build with alot hp and pdef if they change some gems and refine. They also get alot hp from Fate/Sniper lvl.

    We got more def strength but an archer got more mpd skills to help the party. Like moon nm you cant clear it when you take a defense knight with you. The second boss cant be killed with a def knight.

    I only see that knights get left out in mpds because they don't need them. Its more easy with 2 archers and 2 mages.

    I see block as a knight/tank skill, its strange that mages and archers also can use it. It would be the same if we could heal our party when we would collect intellect.

    I dont know where the problem is but i get alot messages about knights that gonne quit because they feel useless.

    Frostybear

    Hi,
    I will try to answer each of your points:

    RE: archer hp pdef
    sure they could switch but no good archer would do that

    RE: fate/hp
    (this was a late night mistake corrected in the following email) if both get the same hp knight will always get much more, at least 20% more

    RE: archer mpd
    the way the game is built for most things you need to have an archer; this does not mean that knights are useless

    RE: moon nm defense knight
    a knight also has to be smart, he has to be able to switch between offense and defense using double skills; a knight with 2 delphics can dish out a very good amount of damage

    RE: 2 archers 2 mages
    if you can do a dungeon without a knight it means that either the dungeon is too easy already for your battle ratings or the knight that was offering his services is not strong enough; that said a good guild will always try to support all members and when you have powerful knights they can certainly help you

    RE: block
    block is a universal stat, however knights get automatically healed when they block which the other 2 classes cannot; additionally crit archers and mages would have a huge problem getting block, while will destroyer knights have a much easier time getting this stat increased

    RE: where the problem is
    the problem is due to people's lack of understanding the game; as I told you I play a knight for 2 years and am almost 300k BR on my main knight account; I am the 1st person to say that knights are disadvantages but for completely other reasons that you guys didn't even discuss about; the points that you did discuss according to my explanations above are not the problem of knights

    I hope I helped,
    maybe we should post this Q&A in the forum? then if people have more knight questions I can answer them

    Thanks to you also,
    GM Cosmos

    Hi Cosmos,

    Thank you for your answers.

    I agree with alot of your points. A good archers wont build up as tank, but it seems some of them do. Maybe its the lack of good tanks in our server. Im also a knight tank and i dont got the problem for feeling left out.

    I understand that overall a knight is a better tank then an archer ever could be. But its possible to build an archer as tank atm. They dont use crit gems, but block, they lower the patk for hp gems.

    In point 2 you say knights get 20% more hp, do you mean the knight passive skill? Also archers got the passive skill to get 20% crit and 20% HP called "Eye of the eagle". Dunno were a knight get 20% more hp then Archer.

    A knight got alot 60 secs cooldown for tanking and cant be reduced. Archers can reduce incendiary alot. If we could boost our defensive skills more in talents it would help alot.
    Also a mage, archer and knight got in talent dmg reducement, knight isnt higher then the archer talent. Only the 6% in skills we got extra.

    If you post it on forum it we will start an archer vs knight discussion. Would like tonhave a constructive discussion about it.

    Kind regards,

    Frostybear

    Hi Frostybear,

    - any archer that switches to health and defense will lose long term due to loss of WB income, so if someone is doing this i would not recommend that; archer must be maximum offense
    - any class can tank, but the point is if everything is equal then the knight is still a better tank, but if people cannot find a good knight and have to choose between a bad knight and a good archer then of course they would take the good archer; if someone offers them a great knight they would happily take
    - about the HP i am really sorry, i got totally confused with something else; it's the 20% additional PDEF that knights get as well as 20% additional healing effect from Divine Blessing as well as damage reduction and crit rate reduction from Tenacity + knights have the Agoran shield effectively giving 20% + 800 more health
    - yes all have talent for reduction but knights have additional skill Tenacity giving 7% more damage received reduction and 5% less crit received, which is of course a big advantage over others
    - knights heal when they block so if you put an already tanky knight in front + who has good block he will block a lot of damage + heal himself a lot

    Cheers,
    GM Cosmos

    Hi Cosmos,

    Thank you for replying with so much input. I like to see the different views we have.

    My last input for this discussion so you can add it in Q&A.

    - Its not recommend but it happens alot in our server. Its not about the lack of good tanks because they sure have some.
    - Any class can tank, thats maybe the most important line in this discussion. Knight tank is the only class that can get replaced, its maybe not recommend but they can be replaced. You cant replace mages or archers. Thats why knights sometimes feel left out.

    Knights just missing a unique item that other classes dont have. Like mages got heal and archers scatter.

    Kind regards,

    Frostybear

    Hi Frostybear,

    I understand what you mean, but as the game develops this "replacing" part becomes different and everyone then can be replaced. This happens after 2 things:

    1) When people invest in runes: so for example if people get scatter runes even at low level 3-4 then each person can scatter using a rune 2 times, so then it is possible to "replace" an archer's scatter. For skills like Deep Freeze a mage with a PVE set and perhaps a Rage rune can chain cast the Thunderer for the enemy to be slowed down. Knights can invest in a Mire rune for the same effect to "replace" Deep Freeze.

    2) When Sylph will be added: then things get even more interesting, then knights can use Iris for Rain Dance mass healing which is even more powerful than BL.

    Basically once the above 2 points are taken care of where #1 can be done right now and #2 we have to wait to get in the mobile version then there will be no question about replacement.

    Lastly, I hope everyone remembers that to make a strong guild people have to help each other and if there is a weaker knight for example then the guild should try to help him or her to get stronger rather than ignore. And for everyone who is in a guild that avoids you or does not help you I would suggest to go to a better guild or to create a friendly good guild yourself.

    --------------

    Hope people find our discussion interesting - feel free to discuss on this topic in this thread and if there are some important concerns I will ask Frostbear to call me to answer them.

    Cheers,
    GM Cosmos
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