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Fix the might inconsistancies

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  • Fix the might inconsistancies

    I think everyone knows that Wall Defenses have grossly over rated might values. Back when v4 of the game was released Kabam did drop the might values of Wall Defenses but were inundated with complaints. They quickly reinstated the old might values. Most people seem to agree that Wall Defense might now needs to be brought back into line with reality.

    What some people may not realise is that the might inconsistencies are also present with Troops as well. If Tier 1 troops are used as a basis of comparison then they are considerable stronger than their might implies.

    So please read through the options, pick one and vote for it. The Facts and Figures gives a brief explanation as to my reasoning. It is by no means a full explanation. That would require an awful lot of reading, and probably some headaches, but everything is based off countless test battles.

    FACTS AND FIGURES
    As shown below Tier 1 Troops have the highest Strength to Might ratio. So a player with 1 million might in Tier 1 Troops is actually twice as strong as a player with 1 million might in Tier 2 Troops. The Strength to Might ratio should be consistent through the Tiers.

    Tier 1 Troop Strength = 1 whilst Might = 4 giving a Strength to Might ratio of 0.25
    Tier 2 Troop Strength = 2 whilst Might = 16 giving a Strength to Might ratio of 0.125
    Tier 3 Troop Strength = 4 whilst Might = 24 giving a Strength to Might ratio of 0.167

    A misconception about Wall Defenses is that they are weak. When in fact they have the same base Strength as the equivalent Troop Tier. So Tier 1 Wall Defenses are the same Strength as Tier 1 Troops. It is only when Research and Knight bonuses are applied that the gap widens between Wall Defenses and Troops. To keep things simple might should always be based on base values of Strength. Whilst it would be nice to incorporate bonuses into Might calculations it adds unnecessary complication for Kabam.

    OPTIONS
    For the purpose of comparison I will be using a player who has 360k Tier 1 Troops, 180k Tier 2 Troops, 90k Tier 3 Troops, 100k Tier 1 Wall Defenses and 50k Tier 2 Wall Defenses.

    1) Keep Might the way it is

    Tier 1 Troops = 4 or 1.44 million
    Tier 2 Troops = 16 or 2.88 million
    Tier 3 Troops = 24 or 2.16 million
    Tier 1 Wall Defenses = 18 or 1.8 million
    Tier 2 Wall Defenses = 24 or 1.2 million

    This player would have a total Might of 9.48 million.

    2) Change Might so Wall Defenses don't suffer

    Tier 1 Troops = 15 or 5.4 million
    Tier 2 Troops = 30 or 5.4 million
    Tier 3 Troops = 60 or 5.4 million
    Tier 1 Wall Defenses = 15 or 1.5 million
    Tier 2 Wall Defenses = 30 or 1.5 million

    The new Might value would be 19.2 million. The Might value for Wall Defenses on average would be maintained in comparison to the existing model. Troops however gain a massive boost in Might. In my opinion trying to maintain Wall Defense Might is unrealistic and I don't like this option. Of course Wall might huggers will love this option

    3) Change Might so Troops don't suffer

    Tier 1 Troops = 6 or 2.16 million
    Tier 2 Troops = 12 or 2.16 million
    Tier 3 Troops = 24 or 2.16 million
    Tier 1 Wall Defenses = 6 or 0.6 million
    Tier 2 Wall Defenses = 12 or 0.6 million

    The new Might value would be 7.68 million. So someone with Wall Defenses is going to suffer under this option. On average a player who is pure Troops will maintain their existing might in comparison to the existing model. Trying to maintain Troop Might is a better option than trying to maintain Wall Defense Might. Still it will upset some people and does 'punish' those players who choose to use Wall Defenses the way they are meant to be used. It's an option I could live with but I think there are better ones.

    4) Try and find a balance between Troop and Wall Defense Might

    Tier 1 Troops = 8 or 2.88 million
    Tier 2 Troops = 16 or 2.88 million
    Tier 3 Troops = 32 or 2.88 million
    Tier 1 Wall Defenses = 8 or 0.8 million
    Tier 2 Wall Defenses = 16 or 0.8 million

    The new Might value would be 10.24 million which is quite close to the original value. A pure Troop player does benefit from this the most but not excessively. A mixed player, lie what has been used for comparison, also gains some small Might boost. However someone who is all Wall Defenses will take a significant Might hit. If someone is relying that heavily on Wall Defenses they probably deserve that Might hit. In my opinion this option is fair for the two main ways to play this game. That is the pure Troop player and the Wall Defense player who is defending with significant troops. This is my preferred option.

    A PLEA To KABAM
    Please listen to what the players here have to say and fix the might inconsistencies in an upcoming release. These inconsistencies are part of what is causing problems in the game. People do not understand why a player who is seemingly weaker than them ends up defeating them. It is very disheartening for these players to get wiped out by a player who they thought was weaker. This can cause them to quit or just hide and not fight. If might actually lined up with actual strength then some of this confusion would be alleviated.

    PS: Oh and if you do change the might value please make sure Tier 3 Wall Defenses Might is the same as Tier 3 Troops.

  • #2
    I think the wall might is severely hampering the defensive side of the game. If the wall might is adjusted accordingly, then people will be more prone to building wall units and defending their cities.

    However, the T1, T2, and T3 troop mights bring different aspects to the game.

    I.e.
    1) Might builders with one city might choose to only build T2s. This allows them to build more might while having less upkeep by building only T2s.

    2) Strategisers can build only T1s and T3s to seem deceptively small in might but can defeat a much "mightier" player or alliance


    Making T1, T2 and T3 mights and build times proportional will take away some of the small strategies that remain in the game with regards to defeating "mightier" alliances.
    https://bumped.in/

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Abir View Post
      I think the wall might is severely hampering the defensive side of the game. If the wall might is adjusted accordingly, then people will be more prone to building wall units and defending their cities.

      However, the T1, T2, and T3 troop mights bring different aspects to the game.

      I.e.
      1) Might builders with one city might choose to only build T2s. This allows them to build more might while having less upkeep by building only T2s.

      2) Strategisers can build only T1s and T3s to seem deceptively small in might but can defeat a much "mightier" player or alliance


      Making T1, T2 and T3 mights and build times proportional will take away some of the small strategies that remain in the game with regards to defeating "mightier" alliances.
      I hadn't mentioned training times but that does provide some extra food for thought. I don't necessarily disagree with your thoughts on troop might. In fact I employ the T1 and T3 build for that very reason. I get a lot of requests to explain why battle results turned out the way they did. Mostly from people confused at why a army with higher might was defeated by an army with lower might. So I have to explain the difference between might and actual might over and over again. Perhaps some of my desire to align might and strength comes from that LOL

      I'll have a bit of a rethink with training times as part of the equation. It may provide another option for fixing the might problem. The main thing is wall might needs to be more realistic. So hopefully at least that changes at some point.

      Comment


      • #4
        Runey thank you for initiating the conversation,
        I'll keep a close look at this thread and I'll forward feedback to the engineers

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Riccardo Kabam View Post
          Runey thank you for initiating the conversation,
          I'll keep a close look at this thread and I'll forward feedback to the engineers
          Thanks Riccardo Whilst the options Ice put forwa are only suggestions hopefully if we get enough voted we can see roughly what will keep the majority happy. I was online the day Kabam dropped wall might and the reaction from players was, to put it politely, staggering. So I can understand Kabam being hesitant to have to go through that again. I think the majority of players are ready for a change now though.

          Comment


          • #6
            I've voted for "Change might and maintain Troop might"

            but I still want to keep the T1, T2 and T3 troop mights as it is right now. Otherwise there will be no reason to train T1s and T2s once you are able to train the T3s. The inconsistencies with troop mights allow us to strategise and still keep on building these lower level troops depending on what we are aiming for.
            https://bumped.in/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Abir View Post
              I've voted for "Change might and maintain Troop might"

              but I still want to keep the T1, T2 and T3 troop mights as it is right now. Otherwise there will be no reason to train T1s and T2s once you are able to train the T3s. The inconsistencies with troop mights allow us to strategise and still keep on building these lower level troops depending on what we are aiming for.
              Time would be the main factor in choosing what troop types to train. I certainly would not want to see training times of tier 2 or tier 3 to drop. At leat not significantly anyway. For example a tank may be equal to 100 solidiers in terms of strength but it takes a long time to make a tank and only a few minutes to shove a gun in someones hand LOL So in terms of might per hour tier 1 should always be the way to go go, as it is now.

              So far the voting is clearly showing people want might to change especially the need to drop wall might. If that is the only outcome then it is still a win.

              Personally I would still like might values to equate to actual strength just to make things clearer. Though I also understand the strategic benefit in having the discrepancy as it is. I can live with either option if the wall might gets fixed

              Comment


              • #8
                I would like to see wall might remain the same, but have it actually function differently. If you don't defend then it takes on the "fighting capabilities" of the same tier of troops, i.e. Wall Tier I undefended = Tier I Troop (all other things being equal). However, when defending, the wall take on the "fighting capabilities" of the next higher tier of troop, i.e. Wall Tier I with defenders = Tier II Troop. Having the "build" time in line with the tiers, this would mean you effectively can train a Tier II Troop (a Tier I wall that is defended) at the same speed as a Tier I Troop. This gives you incentive to build the wall and defend it to increase you might faster, but it opens you up to possibly getting creamed as well.

                I typed this as more of a stream of consciousness so hopefully it makes sense.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ralm33 View Post
                  I would like to see wall might remain the same, but have it actually function differently. If you don't defend then it takes on the "fighting capabilities" of the same tier of troops, i.e. Wall Tier I undefended = Tier I Troop (all other things being equal). However, when defending, the wall take on the "fighting capabilities" of the next higher tier of troop, i.e. Wall Tier I with defenders = Tier II Troop. Having the "build" time in line with the tiers, this would mean you effectively can train a Tier II Troop (a Tier I wall that is defended) at the same speed as a Tier I Troop. This gives you incentive to build the wall and defend it to increase you might faster, but it opens you up to possibly getting creamed as well.

                  I typed this as more of a stream of consciousness so hopefully it makes sense.
                  It makes sense Not sure if I agree with it yet or not but I'll have a think. I only just woke up and the brain isnt fully functional yet LOL

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Isn't that how it is now anyway? That the wall units double in strength if unhid with high marshall set?
                    https://bumped.in/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Abir View Post
                      Isn't that how it is now anyway? That the wall units double in strength if unhid with high marshall set?
                      Assuming a knight level of 200 or greater then yes. When not defending with a marshal then tier 1 wall base strength and tier 1 troop base strength is the same. Troops do gain the research bonus whilst Wall Defenses dont seem to (still testing). So assuming both parties have the same knight and research then troops always have an advantage.

                      However what ralm is suggesting is that when not defending then tier 1 wall defense has tier 1 troop base strength (as it is now). However when defending (even without a marshal) tier 1 wall defenses gain tier 2 troop base strength. Upon reflection of it I've decided I don't like it LOL Aligning wall build times with troop build times would drastically slow down wall defenses building. By at least a factor of 10. That is because you can improve troop build time by adding more barracks. There is nothing you can do (except giant strength) to improve wall defense build time. Oh knight of course but both get that.

                      Comment

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