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Battle Mechanics Basics

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  • Battle Mechanics Basics

    OK. So maybe this is already explained somewhere and I am just being blind, but... Can anyone explain the basics of how combat works in this game?

    Ground strong against Horse. Horse Strong against Artillery. Artillery Strong against Ground. Simple enough, even though it has next to no basis in historical reality. Whatever.

    But what does "Strong" and "Weak" mean? And what about attacking a mixed group of troops with a mixed group of troops?

    Attack and Life: 1, 2, or 3 stars. Is an Attack Star the same as a Life Star?
    Range: Does not seem to be a factor as far as I can tell.
    Speed: In the absence of Range, what is this?!?! Just March speed? Light Cavalry and Cavalry have 600, but Heavy Cavalry has 900?!?!? Swordsman also have 600, but Battering Rams have 900?!?!

    I have done a couple of initial attacks against Pict Camps and they have been... unenlightening. Small data set, but it is expensive to test.

    Pictish Camp L1 - Defended by 100 Archers
    Attack 1: 155 Light Cavalry, 225 Supply Troops - Lost 44 Lt. Cav. Supply Troops wisely stayed out of the way.
    Attack 2: 200 Light Cavalry, 100 Supply Troops - Again lost 44 Lt. Cav. Supply Troops stayed out of the way.

    Pictish Camp L2 - Defended by 200 Light Cavalry
    Attack 1: 200 Swordsmen, 25 Supply Carts - Lost 39 Swordsmen. Supply Carts wisely stayed out of the way.
    Attack 2: 200 Swordsmen, 200 Militiamen, 88 Archers, 30 Supply Carts - Lost 16 Militia and all 88 Archers.
    Attack 3: 200 Swordsmen, 113 Militiamen, 30 Supply Carts - Lost 77 Militia.
    Attack 4: 200 Swordsmen, 100 Militiamen, 30 Supply Carts - Again lost 77 Militia.

    Pictish Camp L1 Attacks: My losses also seem to remain constant when I attack with more troops, which suggests either the Defender attacks first or it is Simultaneous. In the first 2 attacks the defending Archers should have inflicted 100 "stars" of damage. My "Healing Potions" tech was L1 so instead of killing 100 I would have lost 95, but I only lost 44. The strong/weak has not been factored in yet though... I only lost 44. The numbers do not quite pencil out, but it loos like the strong/weak factor might be ~46%?

    Pictish Camp L2 Attacks: The slower Militia again bravely charge ahead of the better armed Swordsmen. 200 "stars" worth of damage from the defenders killed 77 "stars" of Militia. From the L1 Camp numbers I would have expected to loose 88 of my militia. Healing Potions at L4 by now, so theoretically each Militia should have taken 1.2 "stars" of damage to kill. 77*1.2 = 92 stars worth of damage taken. Again it looks like about 46% effectiveness when defending against your opposite troop type.

    Now here it gets weird... In the second attack on the L2 Pictish Camp sending the Archers was unintentional, but it did prove interesting. They appear to have rushed boldly in to get slaughtered, but in doing so did reduce the casualties taken by the Militia. In both Attacks 3 & 4 the Militia lost 77 men, so one would have expected the same in Attack 2 if the Archers had not been there. This would mean the 88 massacred Archers reduced the Militia losses by 66 which suggests the damage needed to kill 66 Militia was able to kill 88 Archers. If the roughly 50% numbers from above hold in both directions then about 53 of the defenders killed Archers (88 * 1.2 * ~.5) leaving 147 to attack Militia. Expected losses would be 56 Militia (147 * .46 / 1.2). But only 16 were lost. Obviously I am missing something.

    What none of that explains is why the Archers seem to have flung themselves into the fray in a berserk frenzy. It lends some weight to Speed only being relevant to Marching though since the Swordsmen are faster than either the Militia or the Archers. What this all means to situations where both sides has all three kinds of troops in the battle is completely beyond me.

    I understand Kabam wanting to keep some of the combat algorithms secret, but SOME hint to how combat is calculated would be nice. Has anyone seen anything from them or figured out anything more on their own?

    Cheers... Lord Rhyss

  • #2
    There was something I forgot to factor in... The Knight. The first Attack was with a L1, the second two with a L2, and the remain three with a L32 since I purchased Training.

    PC L2 Attack 1: 200 Swordsmen against 200 Lt. Cavalry. Lost 39. Would have expected 100 "stars" of damage (200 *.5 ). L3 Healing drops that to 43. If the Knight gives 5% per level that become 39. Based on the Marshal description that seems about 10x too much though.
    PC L2 Attack 4: 200 S, 100 M against 200 Lt. Cavalry. Lost 77. Healing drops the damage to 83. At .5% a L32 Knight should reduce that by 16%... or 72. Close. Doing the math differently...

    Damage = 100 Stars. Life per Militia 1.392 Stars (1 * 1.2 * 1.16). Expected Militia Lost = 72
    Damage = 100 Stars. Life per Militia 1.360 Stars (1 * (1 + .2 + .16). Expected Militia Lost = 73

    A little low, but what if a L2 PC is presumed to have a L2 Knight and L2 Poison? Comes to 79. Just L1 Poison and it comes in at 77. Might not be Poison... just need a 5% Attack Boost from something.
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    • #3
      Repeated Attack 2.1 with a L32 Knight and L4 Healing. Lost 34 Swordsmen instead of 39. Expected to lose 36.

      New Test. 100 Cavalry & L32 Knight against Pict L1 with 100 Archers. Lost 15. Expected 18. Another missing factor somewhere.

      Also strange that the number of Cavalry killed by the 100 Archers was not exactly half of the Swordsmen killed by the Lt. Cav since all other factors were constant.
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      • #4
        If you scout these Pict camp with high enough Eagle Eyes you will see that the troops will have an Alloy Horseshoes level associated with them. The Research tab kinda implies that Alloy Horseshoes helps with marching speed, but of course the Picts don't need to march anywhere. Alloy Horseshoe level shows up in camps that don't even have horse units. Meanwhile Magic Mapping does not show up which make sense since the ground troops don't move. Geometry also does not show up which is a prerequisite for for the middle level Cavalry unit so apparently the Alloy Horseshoes must factor into the attack somehow, especially with you attacking the horse units.

        I'm sure also that there is probably a randomness factor built into the algorythm so repeating attacks will give slightly different results each time.

        Also in the browser (Facebook) version of this game the barbarians (Pict5s here) almost always had a few traps around. Either our Eagle Eyes are not high enough to see them, but they do not show up on the battle reports either, but if they have wall defenses that will raise the death toll to the troops too. Also maybe the wall itself that they have around the Pict camp factors in to protect the troops inside, maybe gives a bonus to defense.

        So yeah, there are several factors that are still out there that may affect your numbers. Good job though and valuable information.

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        • #5
          Wow. So either I am a complete klutz or it is REALLY easy to missend Troops. Just had it happen twice in a row again.

          Attacking PC L2: 200 LtCav Defending. 200 Swords and 280 Cavalry Attacking. L2 Knight. Lost 48 Cavalry. Ouch.
          200 Stars of Damage... 1:1 Horse to Horse... 2.4 Stars of Life per... Would have expected about 80 dead. Odd.

          Attacking PC L1: 100 Archers Defending. 252 Cavalry and 49 Archers Attacking. Lost 45 Archers. No fun.
          100 Stars of Damage... 1:1 Artillery to Artillery... 1.2 Stars of Life per... Again only about half the expected losses.

          Attacking PC L1: 100 Archers Defending. 252 Cavalry, 75 LtCav Attacking. L2 Knight. Lost 40 LtCav.
          100 Stars of Damage... 1:2 Artilery to Horse... 1.2 Stars of Life per... Losses right on expectations.

          Troop Mix in the first two attacks was accidental, but produced data which leaves me even more puzzled than before. The only thing which fits is damage to your same type effectively counts as Weak. It also feels like there is a Random Factor and yet, at the same time, not. Really odd.

          What does seem consistent (at least with single unit type Pictish Camps) is the Defenders will strike first at Troops they are Strong against, then the same, and then Weak. Also target Tier 1 and then Tier 2. I have not yet Attacked a L3 PC which has all three unit types. Until I have a vague understanding of single unit type combat having all three involved just makes my eye twitch.

          Anyone else have some Battle Results they can post? I know I am not the only one Attacking. Better yet... has anybody actually figured any of this out already?!?!? Please share....
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