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Hero Guide (theoretical)

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  • #1

    Hero Guide (theoretical)

    DISCLAIMER:
    I obviously have no idea how Kabam does these calculations or what hidden permutations exists. This is my interpretation of how possibly battles are calculated and is in no way absolute or said to be true math as it applies to this game.


    There seems to still be a lot of confusion on exactly how heroes play into attacking or defending. Not going to go into great detail here but wanted to provide a few quick examples of my interpertation of the math to help anyone that is unclear understand better. Remember these bonuses apply to TROOP attack and life etc.. Also keep in mind a variable is always the fact that we do not know the attack or life values of each troop type OR the "strong vs" values. For these examples we will use some pretend values.

    Let's start with the attack scenario:

    T3 Heavy Cavalry attacking T3 Catapults

    Pretend values:
    T3 troop Life = 400
    T3 troop Attack = 400
    Heavy Cav vs Catapults "strong vs bonus" = 20%

    Knight stats - 1,133.3% Attack (this increases troop attack)
    65.0% Life (this adds to the life of your troops)
    730.8% -FoeLife (this decreases enemy troop life)
    0.0% -FoeAttack (not applicable here)

    Heros ASSIGNED:
    Owain lvl 150 with lvl 2 Lion's roar and lvl 1 Brother's Unite
    Gareth lvl 150 with lvl 2 boost morale
    Palamedes lvl 100

    Bonuses from heroes:

    Owain = 102% increased TROOP attack from Lion's roar
    +200 to TROOP attack from Brother's Unite since Gareth is assigned
    Gareth = 122% increased TROOP life from Boost Morale
    +200 to TROOP life from Owain's Pact since Owain is assigned
    Palamedes = +150 to TROOP attack from Galant Princes since Owain is assigned

    Now lets do some math based on our pretend values. Remember The term "percent" means "per 100" so 1000% is 1000/100 = 10. Let's also ASSUME (because I don't know) that Kabam calculates bonuses as a summation meaning that they add all base values THEN apply the sum of all percent increases or decreases.

    What does that mean? It means:

    Our knight's attack is 1,133.3% so 11.333
    Our Knight's life is 65% so 1.65
    Owain's Lion's roar is 102% so 1.02
    Gareth's Boost Morale is 122% so 1.22

    We said above we were pretending our T3 Heavy Cavalry is 400 attack and 400 life so...

    Attack = 400 + 200 + 150 = 750 750(1,133%+102%) = 9,262.50 total TROOP attack
    Life = 400 + 200 = 600 600(122%+65%) = 1,122 total TROOP life



    Now the defense scenario:

    Marshal level is 260*.5 = 130% to attack and life

    Pretend values:
    T3 troop Life = 400
    T3 troop Attack = 400
    Catapults vs Heavy Cav "weak vs debuff" = -20%

    Knight stats - 70.0% Attack (this increases troop attack)
    1,038.8% Life (this adds to the life of your troops)
    0.0% -FoeLife (not applicable here)
    808.0% -FoeAttack (this decreases enemy troop attack)

    Heroes ASSIGNED:
    Owain lvl 150 with lvl 2 Lion's roar and lvl 1 Brother's Unite AND lvl 1 Heavy Knights
    Gareth lvl 150 with lvl 2 boost morale
    Breunor lvl 150

    Bonuses from heroes:

    Owain = 102% increased TROOP attack from Lion's roar
    +200 to TROOP attack from Brother's Unite since Gareth is assigned
    +200 to TROOP life because Breunor is assigned
    Gareth = 122% increased TROOP life from Boost Morale
    +200 to TROOP life from Owain's Pact since Owain is assigned
    Breunor = None


    Now let's plug in our values:

    Our knight's attack is 70.0% so 1.70
    Our Knight's life is 1,038.8% so 10.388
    Owain's Lion's roar is 102% so 1.02
    Gareth's Boost Morale is 122% so 1.22

    We said above we were pretending our T3 Catapults are 400 attack and 400 life so...

    400 + 200 = 600 600(102%+70%) = 1,032 total TROOP attack
    400 + 200 + 200 = 800 800(1,038%+122%) = 9,280 total TROOP life


    Now let's try to view the battle math figuring in all buffs or debuffs that exist when the troops fight.
    We assume the attacker sends no heroes and the defending heroes are on cool down so they do not join the battle.

    Attacking force:
    9,262.50 total TROOP attack
    1,122 total TROOP life
    20% attack vs catapults
    -730.8% debuff to enemy life

    Defending force:
    1,032 total TROOP attack
    9,280 total TROOP life
    -20% debuff vs cavalry
    -808% debuff to enemy attack

    Assuming debuffs apply at time of battle means mathamatically when the fighting starts values are significantly different

    9,262.5/8.08 = 1,146.4 attack for the attackers
    9,280/7.308 = 1,269.84 life for defenders

    Now we take 20% off of those values for the troop's weak/strong vs ...?? I do not know how Kabam figured it in. But if that is the case now we are at:

    917.12 attack for the attackers
    1,015.87 life for defenders

    So now we have circled back to simple math and you can see the attacker loses and can estimate the ratio for the defender will be around 1.1 to 1
    Tags: None
  • #2
    I reworked some of the numbers as some new information came available. I also added some mathematical explanation to clarify the calculations.

    EDIT: A member pointed out the Lion's roar bonus was incorrect so I have modified the calculations. Thank you tempicek for catching that and thank you Kabam for increasing that buff



    DISCLAIMER:
    I obviously have no idea how Kabam does these calculations or what hidden permutations exists. This is my interpretation of how possibly battles are calculated and is in no way absolute or said to be true math as it applies to this game.


    There seems to still be a lot of confusion on exactly how heroes play into attacking or defending. Not going to go into great detail here but wanted to provide a few quick examples of my interpertation of the math to help anyone that is unclear understand better. Remember these bonuses apply to TROOP attack and life etc.. Also keep in mind a variable is always the fact that we do not know the attack or life values of each troop type OR the "strong vs" values. For these examples we will use some pretend values.

    Let's start with the attack scenario:

    T3 Heavy Cavalry attacking T3 Catapults

    Pretend values:
    T3 troop Life = 400
    T3 troop Attack = 400
    Heavy Cav vs Catapults "strong vs bonus" = 20%

    Knight stats - 1,133.3% Attack (this increases troop attack)
    65.0% Life (this adds to the life of your troops)
    730.8% -FoeLife (this decreases enemy troop life)
    0.0% -FoeAttack (not applicable here)

    Heros ASSIGNED:
    Owain lvl 150 with lvl 2 Lion's roar and lvl 1 Brother's Unite
    Gareth lvl 150 with lvl 2 boost morale
    Palamedes lvl 100

    Bonuses from heroes:

    Owain = 122% increased TROOP attack from Lion's roar
    +200 to TROOP attack from Brother's Unite since Gareth is assigned
    Gareth = 122% increased TROOP life from Boost Morale
    +200 to TROOP life from Owain's Pact since Owain is assigned
    Palamedes = +150 to TROOP attack from Galant Princes since Owain is assigned

    Now lets do some math based on our pretend values. Remember The term "percent" means "per 100" so 1000% is 1000/100 = 10. Always start with 1.00 to keep the initial value when calculating a percent increase to a value. So for example: To calculate 250% of 100 you would multiply take your base integere of 1.00 and add 2.50 so the calculation would be 100 X 3.50 = 350. Now let's also ASSUME (because I don't know) that Kabam calculates bonuses as a summation meaning that they add all base values THEN apply the sum of all percent increases or decreases.

    What does that mean? It means:

    Our knight's attack is 1,133.3% so 11.333
    Our Knight's life is 65% so 1.65
    Owain's Lion's roar is 122% so 1.22
    Gareth's Boost Morale is 122% so 1.22

    We said above we were pretending our T3 Heavy Cavalry is 400 attack and 400 life so...

    Attack = 400 + 200 + 150 = 750 750(1,133%+122%) = 10,164.75 total TROOP attack
    Life = 400 + 200 = 600 600(122%+65%) = 1,722 total TROOP life



    Now the defense scenario:

    Marshal level is 260*.5 = 130% to attack and life

    Pretend values:
    T3 troop Life = 400
    T3 troop Attack = 400
    Catapults vs Heavy Cav "weak vs debuff" = -20%

    Knight stats - 70.0% Attack (this increases troop attack)
    1,038.8% Life (this adds to the life of your troops)
    0.0% -FoeLife (not applicable here)
    808.0% -FoeAttack (this decreases enemy troop attack)

    Heroes ASSIGNED:
    Owain lvl 150 with lvl 2 Lion's roar and lvl 1 Brother's Unite AND lvl 1 Heavy Knights
    Gareth lvl 150 with lvl 2 boost morale
    Breunor lvl 150

    Bonuses from heroes:

    Owain = 122% increased TROOP attack from Lion's roar
    +200 to TROOP attack from Brother's Unite since Gareth is assigned
    +200 to TROOP life because Breunor is assigned
    Gareth = 122% increased TROOP life from Boost Morale
    +200 to TROOP life from Owain's Pact since Owain is assigned
    Breunor = None


    Now let's plug in our values:

    Our knight's attack is 70.0% so 1.70
    Our Knight's life is 1,038.8% so 10.388
    Owain's Lion's roar is 122% so 1.22
    Gareth's Boost Morale is 122% so 1.22

    We said above we were pretending our T3 Catapults are 400 attack and 400 life so...

    400 + 200 = 600 600(122%+70%) = 1,752 total TROOP attack
    400 + 200 + 200 = 800 800(1,038%+122%) = 10,080 total TROOP life


    Now let's try to view the battle math figuring in all buffs or debuffs that exist when the troops fight.
    We assume the attacker sends no heroes and the defending heroes are on cool down so they do not join the battle.

    Attacking force:
    10,164.75 total TROOP attack
    1,752 total TROOP life
    20% attack vs catapults
    -730.8% debuff to enemy life

    Defending force:
    1,752 total TROOP attack
    10,080 total TROOP life
    -20% debuff vs cavalry
    -808% debuff to enemy attack

    Assuming debuffs apply at time of battle means mathematically when the fighting starts values are significantly different

    10,164.75/8.08 = 1,258.01 attack for the attackers
    10,080/7.308 = 1,399.31 life for defenders

    Now we take 20% off of those values for the troop's weak/strong vs ...?? I do not know how Kabam figured it in. But if that is the case now we are at:

    1,006.41 attack for the attackers
    1,119.448 life for defenders

    So now we have circled back to simple math and you can see the attacker loses and can estimate the ratio for the defender will be around 1.1 to 1

    Comment

    • #3
      Good on fixing your bonus from % calculation. You still have the numbers wrong for some of the buffs (like Owain's 1.02 boost vs. knight's life @ 1.65).

      This is a cute guessing game actually Did you make those numbers up or do you have a setup like that. If you do, let's put bets on the end result. I'm guessing kill ratio of 1.71

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by tempicek View Post
        Good on fixing your bonus from % calculation. You still have the numbers wrong for some of the buffs (like Owain's 1.02 boost vs. knight's life @ 1.65).

        This is a cute guessing game actually Did you make those numbers up or do you have a setup like that. If you do, let's put bets on the end result. I'm guessing kill ratio of 1.71

        Appears Kabam changed the Lion's roar buff, I was unaware of that but I won't complain about a good change. Lion's roar was 102% at lvl 1 and 122% at lvl 2 when I first wrote this now according to hero bios it is 122% for lvl 1 and 146% for lvl 2. I will edit the post and change the Lion's Roar bonus, thank you for pointing that out.

        The end ratio is about the same though because the change becomes negligible in the end. The 1.65 is the correct multiplier for a knight with 65% life stat

        Keep in mind though, this would be a scenario with knights of very similar gear ratio. You can plug in different numbers for attack or defense to see how the ratio would change and values would be changed dramatically with the introduction of fury or skin as you see in game. Again no one knows how these values are really calculated by kabam that is why this is a "theoretical" guide and pretend numbers are used as I stated in the title and the disclaimer.

        Comment

        • #5
          No, I was actually pointing out something different - you amended the description of bonus calculations, but not the actual numbers. This doesn't align:

          Our Knight's life is 65% so 1.65
          Owain's Lion's roar is 102% so 1.02

          As for Lion's Roar, Kabam didn't make any change there, but the bonus is based on hero level, skill level and other assigned heroes.

          Comment

          • #6
            Yeah but a hero party really skews the stats. Hit a city with 20 some reinforcing heros Attack is at a major loss.

            Comment

            • #7
              Ok, no changes were made but I was unaware at the time that different heros assigned affect values in the skills tab. However for the heros I had and their level at the time this math is correct.

              Comment

              • #8
                hola mi punto de vista sobre los heroes es el siguiente: configuracion de los heroes en ataque ( uwain, gareth y breunor) . solo funciona el atributo del leon con su 122% , todos los numeros de breu y gareth no actuan.
                configuracion de los heroes en defensa: TRISTAN,GARETH, PALOMIDES. lo que actua aqui es el 87% de gareth y el 87% de tristan resultado ;174%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 122%lvl 150 vs 174% 2 heroes de lvl 111 , cuando los 2 heroes defensibos esten a lvl 150 la diferencia sera mayor.
                esto hace que el ataque siempre pierda frente a la defensa, los unicos caballeros que actuan realmente en ataque /defensa son los de la mesa redonda, absolutamente todos los demas heroes no sirven para nada ni en lvl 100 ni elevados a 150. PALOMIDES es un heroe absolutamente INUTIL no bonifica ni ataque ni defensa, el mejor caballero de ataque ahora mismo siempre perdera contra el mejor mariscal asignado por que la mejor espada de ataque continua teniendo un atributo de corazon , mientras que en el equipo del mariscal ya no hay atributos de ataque, todo lo demas son factores variables como las iras pieles frenesis y MAESTRIAS, cuando no existia el equipo ni los heroes las tropas perdian un promedio de un 20%cuando atacaban, kABAM MODIFICA LOS VALORES DE ATAQUE CUANDO Y COMO QUIEREN , cuando sacaron la t4 mataba muchisimo y defendia muy bien y ahora es mejor la t1 que la t4, una cosa es los numeritos que ellos pongan en los cuarteles y la verdad son los resultados cuando se usan para atacar y defender. actualmente se pierde un 45% en ataque tropa contra tropa teniendo el cab de ataque en unos porcentajes de 1150 debuff 820. estos % cambian si el defensor decide reforzarse con uwa y breu desde otra ciudad. haciendo que kabam haya perdido el juicio y nos haga atacar solo con 1 heroe (uwa)y el defensor pueda disponer de todos los suyos defendiendo .

                ATACK :UWA ,GARETH, BREUNOR. ONLY WORK UWA
                DEFENCE:TRISTAN,GARETH,PALOMIDES; WORK TRISTAN AND GARETH

                Comment

                • #9
                  hi, the game need a new hero atack , uwain atack single versus tristan and gareth , the other numbers and heroes are smoke to kabam. your selection gear whith your calculator no it's true. the best sword atack for me it's double buff ,no double sword 4 starts.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DeadNed View Post
                    Ok, no changes were made but I was unaware at the time that different heros assigned affect values in the skills tab. However for the heros I had and their level at the time this math is correct.
                    No, sorry, i'll reiterate my point:

                    Our Knight's life is 65% so 1.65
                    Owain's Lion's roar is 102% so 1.02

                    There, you suggest the 65% bonus from knight is better than the 102% bonus from Owain (1.65 > 1.02). You need to unify your computations, or you'll never figure out where your assumptions are wrong.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tempicek View Post
                      No, sorry, i'll reiterate my point:

                      Our Knight's life is 65% so 1.65
                      Owain's Lion's roar is 102% so 1.02

                      There, you suggest the 65% bonus from knight is better than the 102% bonus from Owain (1.65 > 1.02). You need to unify your computations, or you'll never figure out where your assumptions are wrong.
                      This is the last time I will reply because it seems like you are just trollng this thread. I am only listing what the percentage translates to as a multiplier in that section, I am not suggesting that it is weighted versus any other bonus. I don't understand where your confusion is, I believe you are over thinking something.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Well, then don't reply to me, just answer yourself, why LOWER bonus of 65% (<102%) "translates" to a HIGHER "multiplier" of 1.65 (>1.02). You do add those numbers together in your computation, so they need to be on the same scale.
                        Anyway, that's all from me, was just trying to help you a little .o]

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Too much math bro, its quite simple we need new attack hero maybe gawain dont know when he will be released but I have few medals for him. The problem is gareth n tristan both troops life boost only owain troop attack boost. Its that simple

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            I'm having a flashback followed by ticks on my right shoulder. Jk. I've done what your trying to accomplish many times over as I'm OCD with regards to coming to definitive answers. The only definitive answer is there is no definitive answer. Let me tell you, and I write this from way too much experience in search of battle algorithms from monster excel sheets that are inundated with data, step away from this. The thing is, you may very well find the answer or be very close, but after 100s of tests and getting just so very close....... Kabam will change the basic inputs your using. You will end up irate and find the very item your using, purchased monetarly or by time spent, was initially "promoted" falsely, changed from the initial promotion or, through gross negligence and/or incompetence, the dev team fails to maintain the rudimentary standard they promote. I know I'm a Debbie downer but best play the game with a grain of salt. PS: I can't help myself but test your heros with individual troop types. You will find a few act as one certain kind or improve one a little more individually then the other say ground and air. It may be a glitch they will fix but I sure h($)ll will not find out . Cheers leave the tip on the table
                            psychological help

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Someone please list best hero lineup per city for attacking and defending

                              Comment

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