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  • #31
    Originally posted by Canadiank View Post
    defencive gear is the only thing that would make peeps stay open if someone gets good ratios on defence they will stay open. They need to just give the small edge back to defence. Not have 1-200% gaps I think would fix the closed issue.
    I disagree. We had that before and it didn't work. As long as you can DOUBLE your attack for a period of time, only very rarely will people stay open offline. We need to get rid of fury first, THEN we can try to find balance between attack and defense. Many people will stay open with the chance of "bad" ratios, as long as those ratios are still close to 1. With fury the only way you can make those ratios close to 1 is if you make the defense twice as strong as the attack. Only then would more people stay open, but noone will want to attack them. Also mind, that we will never get back to many people being open, unless the difference between top spenders and non-spenders gets sane again.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by tempicek View Post
      I disagree. We had that before and it didn't work. As long as you can DOUBLE your attack for a period of time, only very rarely will people stay open offline. We need to get rid of fury first, THEN we can try to find balance between attack and defense. Many people will stay open with the chance of "bad" ratios, as long as those ratios are still close to 1. With fury the only way you can make those ratios close to 1 is if you make the defense twice as strong as the attack. Only then would more people stay open, but noone will want to attack them. Also mind, that we will never get back to many people being open, unless the difference between top spenders and non-spenders gets sane again.
      That's a mis conception. Fury dose not double your attack. If fury doubled a 600% attack they would be able to hit 500% marshals like there wasn't one. It just adds 100% boost to your attack so a 600% becomes 700% a 600% attack dose not become 1200% because you put a fury on.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Canadiank View Post
        That's a mis conception. Fury dose not double your attack. If fury doubled a 600% attack they would be able to hit 500% marshals like there wasn't one. It just adds 100% boost to your attack so a 600% becomes 700% a 600% attack dose not become 1200% because you put a fury on.
        Sounds like you don't use fury much. Fury does indeed double your attack, it's absolutely independent on your gear. If fury worked the way you say it does, it would be almost useless these days and noone would care (what's a 100% bonus to your ~900% attack knight?).

        Originally posted by Canadiank View Post
        If fury doubled a 600% attack they would be able to hit 500% marshals like there wasn't one.
        That statement doesn't make much sense. With a 600% attack you'll be hitting 500% marshals with about 1:1 ratio (after the army size bonus). If you doubled your attack, you'd be hitting with a 2:1 ratio (which is what happens with fury). Without marshal, and with a 600% attack, you'd be hitting with 7:1 ratio. Does 2:1 and 7:1 seem any close to each other?

        Originally posted by Canadiank View Post
        a 600% attack dose not become 1200% because you put a fury on.
        You seem completely lost in how the percentages work. 1200% bonus doesn't provide twice the attack of a 600% bonus (with a 600% bonus your 1 base damage turns into 7 dmg, while with 1200% bonus 1 dmg turns into 13; 13 isn't 2*7).


        Buffs (fury) and gear bonuses aren't additive, they are multiplicative with respect to each other. Watch your reports once and you'll see that whatever your gear/knight, you will kill twice as many units when you put fury on (as long as you had no buff on your before).

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        • #34
          Originally posted by tempicek View Post
          Sounds like you don't use fury much. Fury does indeed double your attack, it's absolutely independent on your gear. If fury worked the way you say it does, it would be almost useless these days and noone would care (what's a 100% bonus to your ~900% attack knight?).



          That statement doesn't make much sense. With a 600% attack you'll be hitting 500% marshals with about 1:1 ratio (after the army size bonus). If you doubled your attack, you'd be hitting with a 2:1 ratio (which is what happens with fury). Without marshal, and with a 600% attack, you'd be hitting with 7:1 ratio. Does 2:1 and 7:1 seem any close to each other?



          You seem completely lost in how the percentages work. 1200% bonus doesn't provide twice the attack of a 600% bonus (with a 600% bonus your 1 base damage turns into 7 dmg, while with 1200% bonus 1 dmg turns into 13; 13 isn't 2*7).


          Buffs (fury) and gear bonuses aren't additive, they are multiplicative with respect to each other. Watch your reports once and you'll see that whatever your gear/knight, you will kill twice as many units when you put fury on (as long as you had no buff on your before).
          While Canadian % comparisons are wrong i don't think fury dose double troops killed. It is not a double % but more like 1.45 I did a standard test with no gear and again with gear. In the gear test i killed 200k t4 with 139k t5 i put fury on and 290k t4 with 139k t5. In the no gear test i killed 80k t4 with 100k t5 with fury I killed 129k t4 with 100k t5 so it is not a doubling of your troops killed. I never had fury be that effective for me since gear has come out and I have used hundreds. That being said if you have a huge head advantage already then add the 100% boost it would be a massacre but, if gear is slightly close then it is really only a 1.45-1 ratio when adding fury not 2-1. Would you mind letting me know how you came to your conclusion of fury being that effective I would love to know. Just because if I kill 300k t3 in 1 hit if I put fury on I will not kill 600k t3 the rate of effectiveness would change to the number of troops in the scenario.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by tempicek View Post
            Sounds like you don't use fury much. Fury does indeed double your attack, it's absolutely independent on your gear. If fury worked the way you say it does, it would be almost useless these days and noone would care (what's a 100% bonus to your ~900% attack knight?).



            That statement doesn't make much sense. With a 600% attack you'll be hitting 500% marshals with about 1:1 ratio (after the army size bonus). If you doubled your attack, you'd be hitting with a 2:1 ratio (which is what happens with fury). Without marshal, and with a 600% attack, you'd be hitting with 7:1 ratio. Does 2:1 and 7:1 seem any close to each other?



            You seem completely lost in how the percentages work. 1200% bonus doesn't provide twice the attack of a 600% bonus (with a 600% bonus your 1 base damage turns into 7 dmg, while with 1200% bonus 1 dmg turns into 13; 13 isn't 2*7).


            Buffs (fury) and gear bonuses aren't additive, they are multiplicative with respect to each other. Watch your reports once and you'll see that whatever your gear/knight, you will kill twice as many units when you put fury on (as long as you had no buff on your before).

            Gonna be completely honest did not think that though when I type that. I am way wrong there lol.

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            • #36
              Does it really matter anymore?

              There's about 25 of the same players left on older servers to hit. Who cares. Just hit the same 25 other gemmers over and over and over and over again. And complain less about gear %.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Canadiank View Post
                Gonna be completely honest did not think that though when I type that. I am way wrong there lol.
                No worries mate, we all have the days

                Originally posted by Lance1_top20killer View Post
                While Canadian % comparisons are wrong i don't think fury dose double troops killed. It is not a double % but more like 1.45 I did a standard test with no gear and again with gear. In the gear test i killed 200k t4 with 139k t5 i put fury on and 290k t4 with 139k t5. In the no gear test i killed 80k t4 with 100k t5 with fury I killed 129k t4 with 100k t5 so it is not a doubling of your troops killed. I never had fury be that effective for me since gear has come out and I have used hundreds. That being said if you have a huge head advantage already then add the 100% boost it would be a massacre but, if gear is slightly close then it is really only a 1.45-1 ratio when adding fury not 2-1. Would you mind letting me know how you came to your conclusion of fury being that effective I would love to know. Just because if I kill 300k t3 in 1 hit if I put fury on I will not kill 600k t3 the rate of effectiveness would change to the number of troops in the scenario.
                Hi. I've done extensive testing on the combat formula. In all those cases fury did double the attack power, unless other buffs were in place (frenzy, really, unless you have many masteries).

                Originally posted by Lance1_top20killer View Post
                That being said if you have a huge head advantage already then add the 100% boost it would be a massacre but, if gear is slightly close then it is really only a 1.45-1 ratio when adding fury not 2-1.
                When using multiplicative bonuses you need to think of ratios, not percentages. If you are hitting with 1:2 ratio (being in a big disadvantage), using a fury will even it out. If you are doing 1:1, using a fury you'll get to 2:1. If you are killing him without a fury, adding fury just turns into a massacre. Which is why we see these cry-moments these days whenever anyone opens unprepared (or against fury).

                Essentially the formula is similar to this:

                TotalBonus = (TroopTypeBonus)*(KnightLvlBonus+GearBonus)*(HeroB onus)*(BuffsBonus)*(ArmySizeBonus)

                The reason why Fury doesn't give you twice the firepower is because the buffs are additive, so if you have 20-30% on you from Frenzy and Masteries already (so let's say 1.25 multiplier), adding 100% to it puts you to the 120-130% range (2.25 multiplier, rather than 2.5 if it doubled). But that's only the buffs. Against all the other bonuses fury is multiplicative, and lvl 100 Owain (with Bruenor in the city) + Fury + Frenzy gives you ~300% attack bonus, rather than the "expected" 200% (=100+20+82).

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by tempicek View Post
                  No worries mate, we all have the days



                  Hi. I've done extensive testing on the combat formula. In all those cases fury did double the attack power, unless other buffs were in place (frenzy, really, unless you have many masteries).



                  When using multiplicative bonuses you need to think of ratios, not percentages. If you are hitting with 1:2 ratio (being in a big disadvantage), using a fury will even it out. If you are doing 1:1, using a fury you'll get to 2:1. If you are killing him without a fury, adding fury just turns into a massacre. Which is why we see these cry-moments these days whenever anyone opens unprepared (or against fury).

                  Essentially the formula is similar to this:

                  TotalBonus = (TroopTypeBonus)*(KnightLvlBonus+GearBonus)*(HeroB onus)*(BuffsBonus)*(ArmySizeBonus)

                  The reason why Fury doesn't give you twice the firepower is because the buffs are additive, so if you have 20-30% on you from Frenzy and Masteries already (so let's say 1.25 multiplier), adding 100% to it puts you to the 120-130% range (2.25 multiplier, rather than 2.5 if it doubled). But that's only the buffs. Against all the other bonuses fury is multiplicative, and lvl 100 Owain (with Bruenor in the city) + Fury + Frenzy gives you ~300% attack bonus, rather than the "expected" 200% (=100+20+82).
                  Trust me if you kill 300k t3 one hit then fury with no other buffs you will not kill 600k just because you need more of a % to replicate. You also have to take into account the troop stats as well. It's impossible to say for sure what fury dose because it's impossible to get a clean test with no stats no nothing. I think saying fury kills twice the amount is off though because remember defence has a built in 30% advantage as well so to say that it kills 2 times as much is not going to be consistent.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Lance1_top20killer View Post
                    Trust me if you kill 300k t3 one hit then fury with no other buffs you will not kill 600k just because you need more of a % to replicate. You also have to take into account the troop stats as well. It's impossible to say for sure what fury dose because it's impossible to get a clean test with no stats no nothing. I think saying fury kills twice the amount is off though because remember defence has a built in 30% advantage as well so to say that it kills 2 times as much is not going to be consistent.
                    No to all your points. It's possibly to say what fury does, because it does it consistently no matter the other factors. "Defense bonus" (which really isn't a defense bonus, but an army size bonus) is multiplicative, so it plays no role in fury. Same with troop type etc. Check the equation up there.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by tempicek View Post
                      No to all your points. It's possibly to say what fury does, because it does it consistently no matter the other factors. "Defense bonus" (which really isn't a defense bonus, but an army size bonus) is multiplicative, so it plays no role in fury. Same with troop type etc. Check the equation up there.
                      Actually, there IS an exception to this - heroes. The elite heroes add flat rate to kills and defenses (not talking about Owain's and Gareth's troop bonuses, but all the "elite unit" skills), so you have to go without them to see it (or go with high tier troops to minimize heroes' relative effect).

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        i feel the exact same way the game has lost all the fun and excitement even the tourneys are boring with most of the prizes being troops so the need to train has even become obsolete. i get on for daily rewards pop 1000 heavy cav so i get a chest from what ever tourney is on exchange a wave with a knight matched with a player at the same level for th tk tourney and build a bit of wall. would put healing on but lets face it its cheaper to just train more or wait till y ou win some more chests with troops, even the campaigns now cant be won unless your furied, a knight maxed out with the best gear and a maxed out hero. i never used to mind spending gems here and there to buy a speed chest or a train with Arthur...... but its just gotten ridiculous . i even joined a hardcore world thinking it would bring back the old excitement of your ALLIANCE waging war not being able to close but the same things have occurred the big spenders winning all the gear and well you just cant keep up. not every one earns $1000 a day kabam.

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                        • #42
                          This is an old thread. Please start a new discussion in the future if you would like to discuss the same topic.

                          Thank you.

                          [Closed Thread]

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