Sp4z: Combo Improvement Suggestion & Pink Question

[2059015]

Combo Suggestion:
Sp4z, as noted in my other posted, variability is a major issue. Primarily in the # and amount of options players have to develop their own style of deck and the randomness of encounters. So the question is, how do you create options to personalize the game without doing so via RNG (IO, I'm staring at you, you b***ard). My solution? Combo variations. You all are essentially doing this already, but you're kinda going half Monty vs full Monty.

Example:
Eternal Evil - it gives an inherent boost to both atk / defense. You add Frost Witch you get a never proc'ing rez, you add Juicifer you get reflect damage.

Suggestion:
Take the step even further. Start making 3x 6* combos that give some inherent base stats (KG / Drust / War give 100% atk / 75% hp) then give them multiple final card options to allow people to customize their deck. I.E. Add Death and gain + 100% atk. Add Kel Earthbringer and gain +50% hp + 30% mitigation. Add Hope and gain...nothing...she's being revamped just hold tight! (I kid, I kid).

Anyhow you get the idea. This does 2 things. It gives all players options. It gives older players who have nearly ALL the cards something to do (seriously when is the last time you used Myrddin or Ben-nu Hellborn?), it gives newer players who don't have the cards reasons to collect older cards, and it gives middle of the road players reasons to finish off those dusty old 6*'s they don't care about. Overall, it would allow people to add diversity to their decks based on what they need. What to build a reflect deck? Now you can without being terrible. Want to build a rear party kill deck? Feel free. The game should be a chess match, not a dice roll. Right now it's a dice roll.

Food for thought, new topic.

Pink Question:
I've noticed that as of late as cards become more powerful, they turn pink. Now I have nothing against pink, but when Hot Topic becomes the gold standard for evil, we might need to re-evaluate our art direction. Examples: Scarecrow, Soul Cage, Juicifer and Loholt Chainwail just to name a few. It's not that I don't think pink can be scary or bad *ss, it's just when I think of Hell / evil, I don't envision an EDM party filled with brightly colored infernal denizens.

Your friend,
Darth Pote

P.S. Quit making bonus stacking multiplicative instead of additive. This is a dumb dumb rule.

[Guest]

I noticed the pink thing also. Many times, recently, I have liked the looks of the lower tier cards more than their higher tiers because of this. Totally agree with the first point as well, very well put.

[Guest]

haha I was just thinking today the overuse of pink was annoying me... makes cards seem less special.

[Guest]

I'll bring this to Dash. We were thinking of something similar, but we have to evaluate how that impacts the older cards. My thinking is that the old cards get revamped first so they have the potential to combo with new cards.

Dash also mentioned bringing 2 card combos back into the meta, but that takes a lot of design work because of all the combos of combos upon combos...well it can get a little out of hand. So we are't sure yet. Right now it's just talk, nothing official, but a could talk. that should continue here. What do you guys think of 2 card combos? Too crazy? Too much meta-breaking? Go, go, go! (Remember this is just a discussion. There is no official plan of action for 2-card combos.)

[Guest]

I've been saying it for awhile, 2 card combos bring lots of variety to deck building and could add more strategy.

I think they will be great as long as they don't go too crazy with the effects but we already have a few people mix and match so it's partially being utilized now anyways

[Guest]

I'll bring this to Dash. We were thinking of something similar, but we have to evaluate how that impacts the older cards. My thinking is that the old cards get revamped first so they have the potential to combo with new cards.

Dash also mentioned bringing 2 card combos back into the meta, but that takes a lot of design work because of all the combos of combos upon combos...well it can get a little out of hand. So we are't sure yet. Right now it's just talk, nothing official, but a could talk. that should continue here. What do you guys think of 2 card combos? Too crazy? Too much meta-breaking? Go, go, go! (Remember this is just a discussion. There is no official plan of action for 2-card combos.)

2 card combos open up the possibility of more variations on restricted rank arenas and for players who are just starting out but are struggling to complete powerful combos. More variation, imo, is not a bad thing as it promotes creativeness.

[Guest]

Anything that brings more creativity, originality, and diversity to arena decks gets my vote, so thumbs up for 2-card combos. Otherwise we get cookie-cutter decks, dice roll odds, and a lot of player entitlement (i.e., "I should win all the time with this deck!").

[Guest]

I'll bring this to Dash. We were thinking of something similar, but we have to evaluate how that impacts the older cards. My thinking is that the old cards get revamped first so they have the potential to combo with new cards.

Dash also mentioned bringing 2 card combos back into the meta, but that takes a lot of design work because of all the combos of combos upon combos...well it can get a little out of hand. So we are't sure yet. Right now it's just talk, nothing official, but a could talk. that should continue here. What do you guys think of 2 card combos? Too crazy? Too much meta-breaking? Go, go, go! (Remember this is just a discussion. There is no official plan of action for 2-card combos.)

It definitely is a delicate balance.
Say you add just another two card combo like Fire and Ice, then you will have four legends with a 360% increase in attack, which sounds pretty awesome but obviously is too strong unless you first make combos that can absorb that much. (Although the 1M attack team has to start somewhere, lol)
My suggestion is to start off by building one of each kind of two card combo.
You already have Fire and Ice so no attack boost is needed.
Create the following, for example:
Two card increase HP by 175%.
Two card increase proc by 40%.
Two card revive with full health, perhaps even a guaranteed revive like the four birds.
Two card damage reduction by 70%.
Two card damage proc trigger by 15%
Two card instant death.
Two card increase healing effect by 150%.
Two card silence entire party.
Two card freeze entire party.
Two card stun enemy team (repeatable).
Two card reflect already exists but perhaps it can be boosted up a bit.

Perhaps a few new ones can be considered as well.
Two card magic shield (repeatable)
Two card thaw (removes freeze)
Two card voice (removes silence)
Two card awaken (removes stun)
Two card shield (creates a shield that absorbs massive hp, 200k)

On top of all of that, it would be nice to somehow assign their combos in ways that compliment that cards stats and procs.
Such as having Crimson Dragonaire be a part of the proc increase combo. Or giving instant death to a weak legend such as Myriddin.

Another suggestion
It would be nice to create some kind of icon that shows when damage will be prevented for the Sir Percival/Golden Galahad prevent damage combo.
That combo seems to get overlooked but fits right into this discussion.

With that all said, I think moderation is the key. Small additions at a time to get an idea of how the balance will go rather than giving us too many at once.

[Guest]

I'll bring this to Dash. We were thinking of something similar, but we have to evaluate how that impacts the older cards. My thinking is that the old cards get revamped first so they have the potential to combo with new cards.

Dash also mentioned bringing 2 card combos back into the meta, but that takes a lot of design work because of all the combos of combos upon combos...well it can get a little out of hand. So we are't sure yet. Right now it's just talk, nothing official, but a could talk. that should continue here. What do you guys think of 2 card combos? Too crazy? Too much meta-breaking? Go, go, go! (Remember this is just a discussion. There is no official plan of action for 2-card combos.)

Regarding your first comment: Screw the revamp, just put them in good combos. I.E. Hope could suck as a card, but if she was in a combo worth 2 craps, people would use her. Hell people used Gods (still do) forever and Horned Lord proc is blehhhh. The ultimate use of a card is determined by the power of it's combos, not by it's ability, unless the ability is game breaking (IO).

Regarding your second comment: While I do really enjoy the idea of more 2 card combos as a short term, I don't think I like it as a long term. Let me explain that comment though before the sky falls.

The issue is as the game progresses and the 2 card combos proliferate, at some point the game becomes impossible to realistically manage and even harder to not create a singular SUPER combo. Look no further than the what happened with IO + Infernus + Corradin + Bron. You aren't even making regular 2 card combos and you created a singular "best" combo. I have no clue if that was intentional, but that combo basically broke the attack scaling cycle. Looking at it holistically it: became the #1 attack combo by ~50k + has the smallest mana consumption + has the best card in the game (IO Proc) + if IO doesn't proc you get an 80k HP first turn boost + it has 650k hp. You get the idea. You basically HAVE to have run this combo.

To keep the game from going from too few options to being a game that has too many, I think the 3 card + variable 4th card combos are the way to go. That way instead of having 10x 2 card combos, you can make 1x 3 card combo and do 4x variants at the end. In doing so your tracking is a tree vs an infinite web and prevents unintended consequences. Further, it does lower the bar for entry (by making combos 3 cards vs 4), while maintaining the value that older players have accumulated. Also, as noted above, it then makes it easier to make useless cards useful. Give Hope + damage or + HP to a 3 card combo and suddenly people will use her. Easy fix.

[Guest]

I would suggest an Enchantment feature as an alternative.

Look! It is so nice that you can add combos to any (with some restrictions ofc) card you want. It provides great customization to players.

The Enchantment consumes some cards and materials. Since it is a combo, it only effects when several cards of the same enchantment are in one team.

Let's take 200% HP combo for an example.
Enchantment 200% HP
Restrictions: applicable to any T4 cards without HP boost combos (for obvious reasons).
Combo number: 3 (it effects when 3 cards with this enchantment are put in one team)
Materials to be consume:
1. <number> x any 6-star that has a HP boost combo above 200% (e.g., Vamb, Rhiannon, Fallen Vamb, Ironbark, etc.)
- Tier 1 card used: 200% HP enchantment
- Tier 2 card used: 210% HP enchantment
- Tier 3 card used: 225% HP enchantment
- Tier 4 card used: 250% HP enchantment
2. Some Tokens, GK Shields, or the same sort
3. Gems
4. Common materials: gold, charms.

A cool-down can be applied to this enchantment, e.g., once per 3 month.

For material one, the 6 * card, it can have some variations.
For example, a "Card Decomposition" mechanism can be introduced.
Plays can get Vigorous Fragments when decompose cards with HP boost combos.
These Vigorous Fragments can be used for HP boost combo enchantment.
The higher the stars of a card, the more fragments one can get from decomposing the card.

[Guest]

I would suggest an Enchantment feature as an alternative.

Look! It is so nice that you can add combos to any (with some restrictions ofc) card you want. It provides great customization to players.

The Enchantment consumes some cards and materials. Since it is a combo, it only effects when several cards of the same enchantment are in one team.

Let's take 200% HP combo for an example.
Enchantment 200% HP
Restrictions: applicable to any T4 cards without HP boost combos (for obvious reasons).
Combo number: 3 (it effects when 3 cards with this enchantment are put in one team)
Materials to be consume:
1. <number> x any 6-star that has a HP boost combo above 200% (e.g., Vamb, Rhiannon, Fallen Vamb, Ironbark, etc.)
- Tier 1 card used: 200% HP enchantment
- Tier 2 card used: 210% HP enchantment
- Tier 3 card used: 225% HP enchantment
- Tier 4 card used: 250% HP enchantment
2. Some Tokens, GK Shields, or the same sort
3. Gems
4. Common materials: gold, charms.

A cool-down can be applied to this enchantment, e.g., once per 3 month.

For material one, the 6 * card, it can have some variations.
For example, a "Card Decomposition" mechanism can be introduced.
Plays can get Vigorous Fragments when decompose cards with HP boost combos.
These Vigorous Fragments can be used for HP boost combo enchantment.
The higher the stars of a card, the more fragments one can get from decomposing the card.

Nice idea! I back this!

[Guest]

combo variations

I agree with the variable combos and a great one is right at our feet with one small fix! Take paladin out of sacred squadron allows 3 great combinations golden galahad adds chance for no dmg from attacks golden vambreal adds chance at 80% hp revive and it neither of those are what you want to do place to put your favorite proc card. Please kabam make this happen it will truly make it a top 10 combo that most already have. A high attack tank with revive or dmg control capabilities. Please consider! And yes 2 card combos are great more combinations.

[Guest]

I vote for adding more 2 card combos. However new combos should be introduced as provisional. A provisional combo would be one that everyone knows might be tweaked. The point is to get it into play, but make sure anyone who spends money on the game knows that it's not a sure thing.

Let's take Fire/Ice. I'd say that this combo is broken.

1. It is overpowered. Compare it with the +200% to +225% attack that is the standard for aggro teams. That corresponds to roughly +72% to +81% for a 2 card combo. Even though IO & Infernus have low overall attacks, a 2 card bonus of +180% is nuts. To be comparable with Order of Savagery you'd be limited to a +35% to +45% two card combo of 6* cards. I.e. if Ogrim & Shinobi had a +40% attack combo you could pair them with Fire/Ice and have stats in the ballpark of Order of Savagery. Again, this is nuts.

2. This combo contains IO. I argue that IO's skill is so over-powered that he should not be part of any significant combo. He stands on his own. Look at how many people play Ancients & IO just for the skill proc.

So really, Fire/Ice should have been introduced as provisional, and then dropped down to something like +100% to allow other two card 6* combos with attack bonuses to exist.

I realize I've gone a little too far into the weeds on the particulars of Fire/Ice, but I'm trying to show: 1. how to determine if a combo is overpowered, and 2. how to fix it. The point of all that is to allow for a healthy ecosystem of 2 card combos as well as 3 and 4 card combos.

Rosen