Arena feedback and Discussion (Constructive)

[2071977]

So, I wanted to address the issue with the Arena and throw out some suggestions.

I understand we are far from fully fixing the arena to make everyone happy, so suiciding tickets to hit certain levels of might is required.

But before I make any suggestions let me quickly mention what was attempted before. There was a point in time where you wouldn't really run into top tier decks, and anyone could get streaks going. There was a huge outcry by the top players at the time to reverse it back because there wasn't really a point in having a good deck if anyone could compete. now of course they are right to some extent, there should be reasons to strive for stronger decks for PVP.

BUT the current chasm is very prohibitive, we went from hitting moderately sized streaks during that time, back to 50% winrate due to running into a top deck after winning.

I would like to address the difficulty curve, as it really does not promote people to keep burning themselves out on arenas because they cannot streak. Now what can we do to fix the issue if even a little bit? Without requiring the overdue arena revamp.


I will cover a quicker fix involving taking advantage of rank rewards, in the current iteration of the game rank rewards make zero sense, ESPECIALLY with cheaters being a current issue. Here is an example of a broken arena system.
- Reward to top 5 players of arena get arbitrary new 6* card.
- Players enter arena, only those with large streaks can remain competitive for top rank.
- Players with top decks get top rewards, top decks get new stuff.
- Next arena comes out, same rewards to top 5, same competition among top decks.

The big issue here is ranking is a competition only among a VERY small segment of players. But the heart of the game is supposed to be facing off against other players in the arena. And the current system propagates the same top decks only getting stronger. Now I understand top decks should have an advantage but their advantage should lie under SECURITY in rewards and TIME SPENT, their advantage should not lie in EXCLUSIVITY. I will cover these terms below.

SECURITY,TIME SPENT
- Lets say the top reward is given to the top 50 players, a fairly decent chunk of players. Lets see how this would effect things.
- Top players shoot up into the ranks as normal, have no trouble staying within top 50.
- mid level players compete for pretty much any spots they can, rank 40-50 would require a fight to hold.
- What do we see when the arena is over? Top decks have their easier access to top ranks not required to fight as hard to hold top prize.
- Mid level players get the same powerful reward for fighting each other into the top 50. We now have a handful of non-top players get their hands on new powerful cards.
- This will in turn allow the potential for new competition in top decks. Mid tier decks now have the capability to fight their way into better decks via larger rank space.
- There is now much more incentive to compete for rank, of course you wont hit rank 1-5, BUT you could work your way to becoming a stronger deck.

EXCLUSIVITY
-The above segment showed how rewarding rank 1-50 the same way could positively effect competition by promoting growth. The issue in only rewarding ranks 1-5 with top reward is that top tier decks are now exclusive. To get top tier cards you ALREADY need to be a top tier deck, its almost impossible to outgrind a top tier deck because you simply cant get the same type of streak going.


I feel like there is a lot of missed game play potential in arenas by making rank rewards so tight, rewarding so few does not give out much for the community to work with. and in all honesty tweaking rank rewards is a very easy fix, and personally it would effect my activity in arena dramatically if there was even a sliver of a chance to compete for the 6* available in rank rewards.

The more complex solution requires changing the matchmaking algorithm, to either allow potential streaks in mid tier players, or simply reward might differently. But I doubt this is feasible or even worthwhile until we get an arena revamp.

The aspects of the arena changes I covered above give a lot more incentive to actually play the game for a large group of players, I hope I can get some feedback on this or confirmation of some sort that an admin has read through it, I'm trying to contribute what I can to the game as I enjoy it, but there is a lot of missed play-ability that is quite easy to tweak.

[Guest]

Your ideas are not bad, but you miss one point: Now there are 'rank on 1 place of any arena'-dailies and therefore the top decks compete in every bloody arena now, even those they do not need to 'evolve' and low, mid-low and even mid-high players have no chance at all. Not even if we say there have to be 50 ranks of top rewards.

First of all we could use some arenas without any rank, only working with might. Not gooood ones, but maybe some, that give you a slight chance of improving your deck. Like chests that could have maxed 3* but up to maxed 6*, with a tiny drop rate for good cards. Than you get one chest for 2k, one for 3k, 4k and 5k and that's it. Top players still have the advantage of needing less time for the same chance. They'll have time for the other arenas and their stupid 'I wanna be first' as well, while weaker players can still get at least something. I'm mid-high on my server and still I can't get higher than 1500 in an arena in a day without losing my streak. And even WHEN I lose my streak, I have to battle kamikaze for 8 hours(!) to reach 5k might. I'd do this if it would give me a little something, but usually interesting rewards are 8k and above, so no chance for me, especially not as university classes started again, which means 70 hours a week of working, and very little time to play. Should a game not be possible to play for people who are going to work or class as well? Kabam wants money but makes it impossible for people to both earn money and play. ....

So in short: Your system sounds nice, but I think with the new daily quests it wouldn't work. To give weaker players a chance, they would rather have to add special arenas (and not those S-SS-things as they're overloaded with high rank players as well, who have a lot more cards to chose from to build an SS deck).

[Guest]

So, I wanted to address the issue with the Arena and throw out some suggestions.

I understand we are far from fully fixing the arena to make everyone happy, so suiciding tickets to hit certain levels of might is required.

But before I make any suggestions let me quickly mention what was attempted before. There was a point in time where you wouldn't really run into top tier decks, and anyone could get streaks going. There was a huge outcry by the top players at the time to reverse it back because there wasn't really a point in having a good deck if anyone could compete. now of course they are right to some extent, there should be reasons to strive for stronger decks for PVP.

BUT the current chasm is very prohibitive, we went from hitting moderately sized streaks during that time, back to 50% winrate due to running into a top deck after winning.

I would like to address the difficulty curve, as it really does not promote people to keep burning themselves out on arenas because they cannot streak. Now what can we do to fix the issue if even a little bit? Without requiring the overdue arena revamp.


I will cover a quicker fix involving taking advantage of rank rewards, in the current iteration of the game rank rewards make zero sense, ESPECIALLY with cheaters being a current issue. Here is an example of a broken arena system.
- Reward to top 5 players of arena get arbitrary new 6* card.
- Players enter arena, only those with large streaks can remain competitive for top rank.
- Players with top decks get top rewards, top decks get new stuff.
- Next arena comes out, same rewards to top 5, same competition among top decks.

The big issue here is ranking is a competition only among a VERY small segment of players. But the heart of the game is supposed to be facing off against other players in the arena. And the current system propagates the same top decks only getting stronger. Now I understand top decks should have an advantage but their advantage should lie under SECURITY in rewards and TIME SPENT, their advantage should not lie in EXCLUSIVITY. I will cover these terms below.

SECURITY,TIME SPENT
- Lets say the top reward is given to the top 50 players, a fairly decent chunk of players. Lets see how this would effect things.
- Top players shoot up into the ranks as normal, have no trouble staying within top 50.
- mid level players compete for pretty much any spots they can, rank 40-50 would require a fight to hold.
- What do we see when the arena is over? Top decks have their easier access to top ranks not required to fight as hard to hold top prize.
- Mid level players get the same powerful reward for fighting each other into the top 50. We now have a handful of non-top players get their hands on new powerful cards.
- This will in turn allow the potential for new competition in top decks. Mid tier decks now have the capability to fight their way into better decks via larger rank space.
- There is now much more incentive to compete for rank, of course you wont hit rank 1-5, BUT you could work your way to becoming a stronger deck.

EXCLUSIVITY
-The above segment showed how rewarding rank 1-50 the same way could positively effect competition by promoting growth. The issue in only rewarding ranks 1-5 with top reward is that top tier decks are now exclusive. To get top tier cards you ALREADY need to be a top tier deck, its almost impossible to outgrind a top tier deck because you simply cant get the same type of streak going.


I feel like there is a lot of missed game play potential in arenas by making rank rewards so tight, rewarding so few does not give out much for the community to work with. and in all honesty tweaking rank rewards is a very easy fix, and personally it would effect my activity in arena dramatically if there was even a sliver of a chance to compete for the 6* available in rank rewards.

The more complex solution requires changing the matchmaking algorithm, to either allow potential streaks in mid tier players, or simply reward might differently. But I doubt this is feasible or even worthwhile until we get an arena revamp.

The aspects of the arena changes I covered above give a lot more incentive to actually play the game for a large group of players, I hope I can get some feedback on this or confirmation of some sort that an admin has read through it, I'm trying to contribute what I can to the game as I enjoy it, but there is a lot of missed play-ability that is quite easy to tweak.

Few comments on this:
First of all I agree that Kabam needs to rethink giving rewards only to top players. Some arenas give rewards only to top 10 and nothing else. This current system of rewarding gives players that already have everything a bit more (and mostly cards they already have).
Increasing the top reward to 50 might be a good idea but really any change from the current is welcomed. Right now the game clearly looses interest and there are many games out there that start to offer a more interesting gameplay. Trust me guys unless u do something to make this better this game will die fast.
Furthermore, Kabam needs to understand that in any game out there guilds have more use - in HOC guilds are basically useless. Guilds should have a certain idea to them that will make all players be part of a big guild. One such option would be guild arenas where u get rank for your guild and then entire guild gets reward. Castle siege for guilds might be a good idea - when the guild gets a prize for rank as well as individual players. Countless other ideas can be added but guilds should be a very meaningfull part of HOC.

Please consider this Kabam

[Guest]

So, I wanted to address the issue with the Arena and throw out some suggestions.

I understand we are far from fully fixing the arena to make everyone happy, so suiciding tickets to hit certain levels of might is required.

But before I make any suggestions let me quickly mention what was attempted before. There was a point in time where you wouldn't really run into top tier decks, and anyone could get streaks going. There was a huge outcry by the top players at the time to reverse it back because there wasn't really a point in having a good deck if anyone could compete. now of course they are right to some extent, there should be reasons to strive for stronger decks for PVP.

BUT the current chasm is very prohibitive, we went from hitting moderately sized streaks during that time, back to 50% winrate due to running into a top deck after winning.

I would like to address the difficulty curve, as it really does not promote people to keep burning themselves out on arenas because they cannot streak. Now what can we do to fix the issue if even a little bit? Without requiring the overdue arena revamp.


I will cover a quicker fix involving taking advantage of rank rewards, in the current iteration of the game rank rewards make zero sense, ESPECIALLY with cheaters being a current issue. Here is an example of a broken arena system.
- Reward to top 5 players of arena get arbitrary new 6* card.
- Players enter arena, only those with large streaks can remain competitive for top rank.
- Players with top decks get top rewards, top decks get new stuff.
- Next arena comes out, same rewards to top 5, same competition among top decks.

The big issue here is ranking is a competition only among a VERY small segment of players. But the heart of the game is supposed to be facing off against other players in the arena. And the current system propagates the same top decks only getting stronger. Now I understand top decks should have an advantage but their advantage should lie under SECURITY in rewards and TIME SPENT, their advantage should not lie in EXCLUSIVITY. I will cover these terms below.

SECURITY,TIME SPENT
- Lets say the top reward is given to the top 50 players, a fairly decent chunk of players. Lets see how this would effect things.
- Top players shoot up into the ranks as normal, have no trouble staying within top 50.
- mid level players compete for pretty much any spots they can, rank 40-50 would require a fight to hold.
- What do we see when the arena is over? Top decks have their easier access to top ranks not required to fight as hard to hold top prize.
- Mid level players get the same powerful reward for fighting each other into the top 50. We now have a handful of non-top players get their hands on new powerful cards.
- This will in turn allow the potential for new competition in top decks. Mid tier decks now have the capability to fight their way into better decks via larger rank space.
- There is now much more incentive to compete for rank, of course you wont hit rank 1-5, BUT you could work your way to becoming a stronger deck.

EXCLUSIVITY
-The above segment showed how rewarding rank 1-50 the same way could positively effect competition by promoting growth. The issue in only rewarding ranks 1-5 with top reward is that top tier decks are now exclusive. To get top tier cards you ALREADY need to be a top tier deck, its almost impossible to outgrind a top tier deck because you simply cant get the same type of streak going.


I feel like there is a lot of missed game play potential in arenas by making rank rewards so tight, rewarding so few does not give out much for the community to work with. and in all honesty tweaking rank rewards is a very easy fix, and personally it would effect my activity in arena dramatically if there was even a sliver of a chance to compete for the 6* available in rank rewards.

The more complex solution requires changing the matchmaking algorithm, to either allow potential streaks in mid tier players, or simply reward might differently. But I doubt this is feasible or even worthwhile until we get an arena revamp.

The aspects of the arena changes I covered above give a lot more incentive to actually play the game for a large group of players, I hope I can get some feedback on this or confirmation of some sort that an admin has read through it, I'm trying to contribute what I can to the game as I enjoy it, but there is a lot of missed play-ability that is quite easy to tweak.

You are exactly right. The scorched and new Kids arenas are great examples. Both of these arenas rewarded the top 1 and 2 players respectively. In our realm, that meant the same person (a known hacker) won both arenas and the second person to win the New Kids was also a hacher. As long as kabam has arenas that only reward a few top players, those rewards will continue to go to either the best players(top decks) or to the active hackers. Judging by the forum posts, hacking/cheating is widespread and these types of arenas encourage and reward cheating. If the top prize was available to 50 players, you take away the reason to cheat.

This is a solid suggestion and should be considered. I realize the top 1% of players/decks will not support this idea, but this game is not just for those top tier players, the masses is made up of middle tier players that are beyond frustrated with arena after arena of pots and tics when top rewards (6* cards) go to the same players that are already top tier.

[Guest]

You are exactly right. The scorched and new Kids arenas are great examples. Both of these arenas rewarded the top 1 and 2 players respectively. In our realm, that meant the same person (a known hacker) won both arenas and the second person to win the New Kids was also a hacher. As long as kabam has arenas that only reward a few top players, those rewards will continue to go to either the best players(top decks) or to the active hackers. Judging by the forum posts, hacking/cheating is widespread and these types of arenas encourage and reward cheating. If the top prize was available to 50 players, you take away the reason to cheat.

This is a solid suggestion and should be considered. I realize the top 1% of players/decks will not support this idea, but this game is not just for those top tier players, the masses is made up of middle tier players that are beyond frustrated with arena after arena of pots and tics when top rewards (6* cards) go to the same players that are already top tier.

I have a very strong deck and can rank on most arenas if i want (if the cheaters aren't in it). I fully support these ideas and suggested this myself. With all the widespread cheating (evident by every other post on these forums and i'm sure an overwhelming amount of tickets submitted, at least 10 by me) why oh why are you putting in 1-2 rewards only? Most of the cheaters don't even need the rewards yet getting them to piss everyone off as we all know they are cheaters. The rich get richer in this game and Arenas are the whole game! I won't try to rank anymore as i had over 70k in scorched and got beat in an hour but i would also never rank if i didn't need the reward so as to let others have a chance. Game is dying and as i mentioned arenas are everything so why not try to share the wealth a bit more.

[Guest]

The game team is looking into a new matchmaking system. It sounds really cool but it is still too early for me to release any details. The new system is definitely going to fix the matchmaking issues and is going to make your approach to battles very different and much more engaging!

Also a fix is coming soon for the auto clicking and botters.

[Guest]

Also a fix is coming soon for the auto clicking and botters.

Yes please. Fix the cheating above everything and then work on whatever else is needed.

[Guest]

Yes please. Fix the cheating above everything and then work on whatever else is needed.

1,000,000% agree with this.