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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cabal73 View Post
    The "oldschool players" CAN'T improve their deck, but you CAN, it's just a matter of time, you will get them, even without spending money.
    Yes I understand what you're saying. There isn't any end game content for players like you to stay, once you've got the best deck or almost the best. As you've said, it's just a matter of time.

    Seeing new players catching up you and may be some of them is lucky enough to get the nesscessay cards, they overpower you. That feels soul, I know it because I've experienced it. May be I am new to this game, I still think that the game will become better.

    Fact is that you can't say the game is dead, there is still people playing, customer support, threads on forum. You may say the game is dying, if there isn't any further contents.

    Comment


    • #17
      This is my own opinion, but I believe that kabam will slowly be rolling out more top tier decks (like golden force for tanking, maybe soon a new 4 card attack team, etc). These events are meant for the high spenders to drop a ton of money in order to stay on top. They make old top cards more available to the masses little by little to light a fire under those big spenders in the hopes that they will continue spending as these new teams get rolled out. Sure they will lose some, but I would bet a lot of players would still spend to stay on top, and even if they end up not spending, there are others who will take their place.

      That being said I do think 'endgame' content in this game is definitely lacking and would love to see some more raid bosses or cities targeted towards those of us with high end decks. Better drop rates for stones, tickets, pots, max lvl feeders maybe...i don't know, but something that would make it worthwhile.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Cabal73 View Post
        I hear people complaining the drops are low, the events don't give feeders and make you use a lot of pots, the arenas now are more difficult.
        This people should really open their eyes and understand where the real problem is.


        There are players that have been playing for more than 1 year (my server started in sept 2013). The top players of the game are people who have bought gems, in order to get cards before the others, who have farmed whole nights, in order to use them cards in the arenas.
        In this way, some players slowly gained the top and started to get distance from other players.

        But now that the Top players reached the best deck possible (Gods, Druids, Crack Knights) and they're stuck, what's happening?

        1)Kabam is not giving new stronger combos: only USELESS new 6* cards.
        2)Kabam is not giving 6* arenas (with possible new strong Legendaries with stronger Combos)
        3)Kabam has been giving in the last months (Since Galahad event) A LOT OF FEEDERS (ridiculing who has been farming whole nights) and Legendaries (Like Galzra, a card you could get a few months ago only buying gems or having a lot of luck!)

        What's the point?
        Top players are stuck, teased and every day they are slowly losing their top. Every other player, even who has not been shopping, is going to get the same deck. This game will get to a point where everyone will get the SAME. FU**ING. DECK.

        THE GAME IS DEAD!
        Greets, Kabam.
        I agree. Kabam just paid insufficient attention to the effort players have ever made, and time and money.

        If they do not change, the game is going to die.

        Comment


        • #19
          So there are a few sides to this. The biggest threat to the longevity of a CCG, by far, is power creep. The idea that the developers have to keep raising the ceiling on powerful cards to ensure there is always a way for the top players to progress eventually spiraling to ridiculous proportions. An example for HoC would be to introduce 7* cards.

          ... BUT, constantly releasing more powerful cards means top players have to keep spending to stay on top and that can get frustrating. They're always chasing the best cards and always needing to spend to stay ahead of everyone. If you release new combinations too fast, then you drive away your players, because they feel like they have to continually drop $1000 / month to compete. Players at the bottom see the gulf widen with no hope of keeping up and they stop, too. RIP HoC.

          It's really, really difficult striking this balance, but it can be done and there's a lot of money to be made in solving the problem. There's been a Best Team for quite a long time in HoC. Even worse than that, there's no indication at all from the developers that things will change.

          I've seen this problem solved - at least temporarily - in Star Wars Force Collection, so I know it can be done.

          I played SWFC for a year before finally leaving it behind and they had a hard time finding this balance, too. For the first 5 months of release, there was always some new card to strive for, but pretty much every young game gets this benefit. It's easy to make something just a little better while the old stuff is still powerful. Everyone was happy.

          But then they released Mace Windu - a card that was so good it beat absolutely everything else, always. It wasn't clear for about a week how good it was, but then black market prices jumped to $80+ per copy and top decks needed 16 copies to be competitive. Top paid players loved that they had a clear advantage over the peasants. The peasants weren't really upset, because they had plenty of other peasants to attack - the automatching algorithm eventually became quite good (still is).

          Then Konami failed to release better cards. Any better cards. At all. The price on Mace drifted down to $70, $60 and then $50. The pay players lost interest in the game. There was no way to improve their decks and they saw free players claw their way to competitiveness. Sound familiar?

          Finally, after four months and a few top paid players quitting altogether, Konami started releasing new, subtly powerful cards. Cards that weren't of great use or interest to new players, but became extremely potent at the top levels. They struck the balance perfectly. New players could trade these cards to paid players (a benefit HoC doen't have, but I digress) while paid players had a reason to update their decks and compete against each other.

          Then they shifted too far in the other direction. Every 2-3 weeks, there was a new Best Card for the top players. How were they supposed to keep up? Why spend $800 to build a new deck this week when it would be outdated 5 days after they finished it? Investing in the game was no longer worthwhile for the entirely opposite reason and they stopped spending money on the game again. If Konami had spaced those new cards out, they would have been better off.


          I guess the moral of the story is that there's hope. HoC can be fixed, if Kabam wants to fix it and there's a lot of money to be made in fixing it. I see at least 3 mechanisms they already have in place to do it.

          1) Rock-Paper-Scissors combos

          It's funny, but you only have look at their 1* cards to see the potential.

          Druid Scout: 1-star, 3 mana
          Ability: "Lower ATK of enemy team if enemy has Spy"

          How hard would it be to release a card or 3-card 5*/6* combo called Royal Assassins: "400% ATK if opposing team has at least 1 Camelot card" Suddenly, you have introduced an interesting dynamic. It's a huge risk to put your Gods in the 1st team, because of Vambrael's Camelot typing means they'll get ROFLstomped. If you don't have a Camelot card in your first team, then the Royal Assassins combo does nothing and the team goes from some 800k ATK monster to a (relatively) piddly 200k ATK weakling. New players won't be putting it together, because it's too hard to get the card together, but the top players have a new toy to play with and a tough decision to make.

          (1a is new card abilities like Hunger Games' "Stun an enemy team" which works really slick and is much-needed in HoC)

          2) Better Arena match-making

          Prior to the latest arena update, the only way they could match you to your opponents were unsophisticated like Ranking in the arena and win perecentage in the arena. Right now, I think it's based mostly if not solely on arena ranking and maybe recent win %. It sucks, but there's nothing they could do about it.

          This latest update, however, makes the defensive parties based on the most recent party that player took into the arena. This means no more freebie wins for players when going up against players that currently have their Raid or Event parties up, but that was already something that was working against the spirit of the arena.

          (to digress: This current system would be fine if there were only ranking awards and no Might-based rewards. Everyone will basically settle in an Arena ranking relative to the strength of their party. The better their party, the better the rewards. Simple and easy to understand. Objective, Might-based rewards screw this up completely, because players end up stranded at some mysterious, arbitrary ceiling of Might where they can no longer win any battles, but they see a 5* card annoyingly outside of their reach which only serves to frustrate, not motivate.)

          Now, however, HoC can try to use arena an matchmaking algorithm that includes both Arena rank and party strength. It would be pretty easy to come up with a party strength metric that is "Good Enough" based on some weighted measure of HP and ATK including abilities. The Hard battle would only be winnable with lucky procs, the medium battle would be winnable some of the time and the Easy battle would nearly always be winnable. Keep Arena ranking as part of the matching to keep people from sandbagging their way to the top, but keep that Easy battle winnable a high percentage of the time. They would also need to require players to reset any time you enter an arena with a new party, but that wouldn't be too hard for players to respect and understand.

          Paid players still will take the top ranks and could ensure top ranks by spending Gems on arena resets. Free players get their Might-rewards without suiciding their streak if they slowly grind Easy battles.

          3) Custom Arenas

          This was the reason Kabam changed the arena parties in the first place. Now that they lock in the Defensive arena parties, they can implement restricted arenas. Their failed experiment with the Equality Arena got a lot of people fired up. I know I was digging around my cards triyng to find the best B party I could put together (it really neede to be A or S, by the way, Kabam).

          Druid-only arena takes Gods and Knights out immediately. Camelot-Only takes out a lot of the best ATK boosting combos. 2-team only arena would put an emphasis on Revive combos. There would always be a new puzzle to solve. Yes, all of those arenas would almost definitely have a Beat Team, but you would have to find that new best team every week or twice a week or whatever. We could probably collectively come up with 3 dozen restrictions that require new Best Party in 12 hours on this forum. I might start a thread for that, in fact.


          I have a feeling (3) will appear in the next two weeks. Combine (3) with (2) and you ensure people will keep entering the arenas and playing. Keep people engaged in the game long enough with (2) and (3) and they'll be around to drop cash on summons when you fix (1). Profit!

          This can happen and if they're smart (and I think they are) it will happen.

          Comment


          • #20
            good post eco

            Comment


            • #21
              Well said Eco. 1 point is interesting there shall be more combos, not necessary the most powerful, but useful. Also the trade system shall be introduced.

              Another thing could be improved on card is to implement an enchanting system or further enhancement on those tier 4 cards. People can improve the cards stat a bit by feeding their own card or by purchasing item/doing quests, they receive those items for further card enhancement.

              "Free players get their Might-rewards without suiciding their streak if they slowly grind Easy battles."

              I'm afraid I can't agree with you about the arena suggestion. Because free players in your thread are actually including players who spend but are not luck enough to get strong cards to compete with. If they only get the might from easy battles, I can't imagine the time taking for getting the might reward.

              Pwople complaining about the current arena is because almost everyone is blocked by 1% players in realm. This problem has solved partially thanks to the implementation of boost migh pool. At least grinding painfulness is reduced.

              Comment


              • #22
                Not to mention, Log in Rewards never change. -wink-

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by EcoKady View Post
                  So there are a few sides to this. The biggest threat to the longevity of a CCG, by far, is power creep. The idea that the developers have to keep raising the ceiling on powerful cards to ensure there is always a way for the top players to progress eventually spiraling to ridiculous proportions. An example for HoC would be to introduce 7* cards.

                  ... BUT, constantly releasing more powerful cards means top players have to keep spending to stay on top and that can get frustrating. They're always chasing the best cards and always needing to spend to stay ahead of everyone. If you release new combinations too fast, then you drive away your players, because they feel like they have to continually drop $1000 / month to compete. Players at the bottom see the gulf widen with no hope of keeping up and they stop, too. RIP HoC.

                  It's really, really difficult striking this balance, but it can be done and there's a lot of money to be made in solving the problem. There's been a Best Team for quite a long time in HoC. Even worse than that, there's no indication at all from the developers that things will change.

                  I've seen this problem solved - at least temporarily - in Star Wars Force Collection, so I know it can be done.

                  I played SWFC for a year before finally leaving it behind and they had a hard time finding this balance, too. For the first 5 months of release, there was always some new card to strive for, but pretty much every young game gets this benefit. It's easy to make something just a little better while the old stuff is still powerful. Everyone was happy.

                  But then they released Mace Windu - a card that was so good it beat absolutely everything else, always. It wasn't clear for about a week how good it was, but then black market prices jumped to $80+ per copy and top decks needed 16 copies to be competitive. Top paid players loved that they had a clear advantage over the peasants. The peasants weren't really upset, because they had plenty of other peasants to attack - the automatching algorithm eventually became quite good (still is).

                  Then Konami failed to release better cards. Any better cards. At all. The price on Mace drifted down to $70, $60 and then $50. The pay players lost interest in the game. There was no way to improve their decks and they saw free players claw their way to competitiveness. Sound familiar?

                  Finally, after four months and a few top paid players quitting altogether, Konami started releasing new, subtly powerful cards. Cards that weren't of great use or interest to new players, but became extremely potent at the top levels. They struck the balance perfectly. New players could trade these cards to paid players (a benefit HoC doen't have, but I digress) while paid players had a reason to update their decks and compete against each other.

                  Then they shifted too far in the other direction. Every 2-3 weeks, there was a new Best Card for the top players. How were they supposed to keep up? Why spend $800 to build a new deck this week when it would be outdated 5 days after they finished it? Investing in the game was no longer worthwhile for the entirely opposite reason and they stopped spending money on the game again. If Konami had spaced those new cards out, they would have been better off.


                  I guess the moral of the story is that there's hope. HoC can be fixed, if Kabam wants to fix it and there's a lot of money to be made in fixing it. I see at least 3 mechanisms they already have in place to do it.

                  1) Rock-Paper-Scissors combos

                  It's funny, but you only have look at their 1* cards to see the potential.

                  Druid Scout: 1-star, 3 mana
                  Ability: "Lower ATK of enemy team if enemy has Spy"

                  How hard would it be to release a card or 3-card 5*/6* combo called Royal Assassins: "400% ATK if opposing team has at least 1 Camelot card" Suddenly, you have introduced an interesting dynamic. It's a huge risk to put your Gods in the 1st team, because of Vambrael's Camelot typing means they'll get ROFLstomped. If you don't have a Camelot card in your first team, then the Royal Assassins combo does nothing and the team goes from some 800k ATK monster to a (relatively) piddly 200k ATK weakling. New players won't be putting it together, because it's too hard to get the card together, but the top players have a new toy to play with and a tough decision to make.

                  (1a is new card abilities like Hunger Games' "Stun an enemy team" which works really slick and is much-needed in HoC)

                  2) Better Arena match-making

                  Prior to the latest arena update, the only way they could match you to your opponents were unsophisticated like Ranking in the arena and win perecentage in the arena. Right now, I think it's based mostly if not solely on arena ranking and maybe recent win %. It sucks, but there's nothing they could do about it.

                  This latest update, however, makes the defensive parties based on the most recent party that player took into the arena. This means no more freebie wins for players when going up against players that currently have their Raid or Event parties up, but that was already something that was working against the spirit of the arena.

                  (to digress: This current system would be fine if there were only ranking awards and no Might-based rewards. Everyone will basically settle in an Arena ranking relative to the strength of their party. The better their party, the better the rewards. Simple and easy to understand. Objective, Might-based rewards screw this up completely, because players end up stranded at some mysterious, arbitrary ceiling of Might where they can no longer win any battles, but they see a 5* card annoyingly outside of their reach which only serves to frustrate, not motivate.)

                  Now, however, HoC can try to use arena an matchmaking algorithm that includes both Arena rank and party strength. It would be pretty easy to come up with a party strength metric that is "Good Enough" based on some weighted measure of HP and ATK including abilities. The Hard battle would only be winnable with lucky procs, the medium battle would be winnable some of the time and the Easy battle would nearly always be winnable. Keep Arena ranking as part of the matching to keep people from sandbagging their way to the top, but keep that Easy battle winnable a high percentage of the time. They would also need to require players to reset any time you enter an arena with a new party, but that wouldn't be too hard for players to respect and understand.

                  Paid players still will take the top ranks and could ensure top ranks by spending Gems on arena resets. Free players get their Might-rewards without suiciding their streak if they slowly grind Easy battles.

                  3) Custom Arenas

                  This was the reason Kabam changed the arena parties in the first place. Now that they lock in the Defensive arena parties, they can implement restricted arenas. Their failed experiment with the Equality Arena got a lot of people fired up. I know I was digging around my cards triyng to find the best B party I could put together (it really neede to be A or S, by the way, Kabam).

                  Druid-only arena takes Gods and Knights out immediately. Camelot-Only takes out a lot of the best ATK boosting combos. 2-team only arena would put an emphasis on Revive combos. There would always be a new puzzle to solve. Yes, all of those arenas would almost definitely have a Beat Team, but you would have to find that new best team every week or twice a week or whatever. We could probably collectively come up with 3 dozen restrictions that require new Best Party in 12 hours on this forum. I might start a thread for that, in fact.


                  I have a feeling (3) will appear in the next two weeks. Combine (3) with (2) and you ensure people will keep entering the arenas and playing. Keep people engaged in the game long enough with (2) and (3) and they'll be around to drop cash on summons when you fix (1). Profit!

                  This can happen and if they're smart (and I think they are) it will happen.
                  This guy knows what's up, he has all great ideas.
                  And what about 2-card combos? We would get more alternatives and strategy.
                  I'd like to lose in arena because my opponent puts up a smart party, and not only because he had luck with Vambrael activating 10 times.
                  Obviously this new type of combos would not solve the problem permanently, the game would get to another dead point after time.
                  HoC needs something like your three points, Eco.

                  Please, don't let this topic die too!
                  Aaron, Dash, Smash! Please read.

                  Comment

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