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[Tip] A little secret to enhance cards faster (and more cheaply).

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  • Robert Robertino
    replied
    Originally posted by Kidori View Post
    @Midnight:
    When you use a 2* card enhanced with 7 other 2* cards it makes it a Level 10.20 (20% progress towards level 11). When you take this Level 10.20 Uncommon and use it on another Uncommon at Level 1 the preview shows it enhances it to only Level 9.40. When you actually click enhance to enhance the card the experience bar is still at 9.40 meaning there is no hidden points gain (Level gain) when using it on an Uncommon as opposed to when you use it on Rares and up. Based on the experience gained from using this card I was able to see that it is worth about 30 points (actual is somewhere between 29.5 and 29.9 but I just round it up) when used on Uncommons and Commons. The amount of points that were used to create the Level 10.20 card is 40, 7 to enhance and then the card being enhanced. Had the 2* cards been used individually rather than to enhance another one first the level gain would have been higher. That is what it is showing.


    Quick Explanation of that list Midnight was referring to:
    I used that 7 card enhance that Void did on Rarities other than Ultra Rare to see what it did and I found out that the points gained are different. That list was suppose to show a comparison of what happens. Using enhanced cards on a Common, Uncommon and Rare will make you level slower and lose points. Rare does have a hidden gain when you actually enhance the card but it is still less points than just using cards that are not enhanced. I'm still testing Super Rare but so far using enhanced cards is the same as doing cards that are not enhanced as far as points (level speed) would go and it would save on gold. Using them on Ultra Rares as Void has shown gives you a great advantage. Basically what the +9 points means is that every time you use that Level 10 card to enhance it is like you are using almost 2 more 2* cards than what you put into making it.

    Notes:
    I use terms like Level 10.20 because there are more than one Level 10 Uncommon. There is a 7 card enhance (increase to Level 10.20) and an 8 card enhance (increase to level 10.95) both giving different experience gains. Same when using 2 1* cards to top off that Uncommon to Level 10. Where the experience bar is on the card being used to enhance will adjust the experience gained.
    I use these points calculations for cards because I feel it gives a better idea of just how much better or worse using certain enhanced cards or evolved cards will be when used for enhancing. The calculations for enhanced cards and even level gains I use are not perfectly exact. They are not always whole numbers and it is hard for me to determine exactly what the value is when it falls between them, but I still feel that it is a reliable way for comparing cards being used for enhancing.

    I hope this helped make things I was trying to show a little clearer.
    15 Cards = 12.5 (96) [+16] 2275g = 23.7
    1+15 is the maximum xp gain? (coincidentally, 15 uncommons = lvl 15, so I suppose one could say 1 lvl 15 uncommon since we could use commons and rares to enhance it).

    Leave a comment:


  • voidwards
    replied
    Thank you for your further tests, guys. I appreciate your help!

    Leave a comment:


  • voidwards
    replied
    Originally posted by Luteuel View Post
    what do you mean the wikia is wrong? the wikia just says how many cards at Lv 1 it takes to gain levels. it never says that that is the best way to level. Your comment is a blanket statement so please enlighten me on what you meant? It is also very player driven so it might be what you say it is.
    When I say the wikia is wrong I am referring to this part:

    The next question you might be having is what is the most efficient way of using feeders; Should you evolve them first, just level them up, both? Well basically the answer is No, you should just use your feeder cards as is with one exception, Cards that are able to evolve to tier four.
    This thread provides clear evidence that this statement is wrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • Midnight Rhapsody
    replied
    Originally posted by Kidori View Post
    @Midnight:
    When you use a 2* card enhanced with 7 other 2* cards it makes it a Level 10.20 (20% progress towards level 11). When you take this Level 10.20 Uncommon and use it on another Uncommon at Level 1 the preview shows it enhances it to only Level 9.40. When you actually click enhance to enhance the card the experience bar is still at 9.40 meaning there is no hidden points gain (Level gain) when using it on an Uncommon as opposed to when you use it on Rares and up. Based on the experience gained from using this card I was able to see that it is worth about 30 points (actual is somewhere between 29.5 and 29.9 but I just round it up) when used on Uncommons and Commons. The amount of points that were used to create the Level 10.20 card is 40, 7 to enhance and then the card being enhanced. Had the 2* cards been used individually rather than to enhance another one first the level gain would have been higher. That is what it is showing.


    Quick Explanation of that list Midnight was referring to:
    I used that 7 card enhance that Void did on Rarities other than Ultra Rare to see what it did and I found out that the points gained are different. That list was suppose to show a comparison of what happens. Using enhanced cards on a Common, Uncommon and Rare will make you level slower and lose points. Rare does have a hidden gain when you actually enhance the card but it is still less points than just using cards that are not enhanced. I'm still testing Super Rare but so far using enhanced cards is the same as doing cards that are not enhanced as far as points (level speed) would go and it would save on gold. Using them on Ultra Rares as Void has shown gives you a great advantage. Basically what the +9 points means is that every time you use that Level 10 card to enhance it is like you are using almost 2 more 2* cards than what you put into making it.

    Notes:
    I use terms like Level 10.20 because there are more than one Level 10 Uncommon. There is a 7 card enhance (increase to Level 10.20) and an 8 card enhance (increase to level 10.95) both giving different experience gains. Same when using 2 1* cards to top off that Uncommon to Level 10. Where the experience bar is on the card being used to enhance will adjust the experience gained.
    I use these points calculations for cards because I feel it gives a better idea of just how much better or worse using certain enhanced cards or evolved cards will be when used for enhancing. The calculations for enhanced cards and even level gains I use are not perfectly exact. They are not always whole numbers and it is hard for me to determine exactly what the value is when it falls between them, but I still feel that it is a reliable way for comparing cards being used for enhancing.

    I hope this helped make things I was trying to show a little clearer.

    Thank you Kidori I apologize for my misunderstanding. From your research, this method only works on 5* card or above, and the best balance is the 12 card enhance.
    However, I believe the best balance shall be the 7 card enhance.
    Firstly, the Gold used on 7 card can be reduced to 725, if you enhance 1 card instead of 6 card first. And Diff to Exp of Cards used is 9/7=1.2857 exp per card
    compare to 12 card enhance, Diff to Exp of Cards used is 15/12=1.25 exp per card.

    I admire people who is intelligent and kind. Thank you all your effort to make HOC a better game.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kidori
    replied
    @Midnight:
    When you use a 2* card enhanced with 7 other 2* cards it makes it a Level 10.20 (20% progress towards level 11). When you take this Level 10.20 Uncommon and use it on another Uncommon at Level 1 the preview shows it enhances it to only Level 9.40. When you actually click enhance to enhance the card the experience bar is still at 9.40 meaning there is no hidden points gain (Level gain) when using it on an Uncommon as opposed to when you use it on Rares and up. Based on the experience gained from using this card I was able to see that it is worth about 30 points (actual is somewhere between 29.5 and 29.9 but I just round it up) when used on Uncommons and Commons. The amount of points that were used to create the Level 10.20 card is 40, 7 to enhance and then the card being enhanced. Had the 2* cards been used individually rather than to enhance another one first the level gain would have been higher. That is what it is showing.


    Quick Explanation of that list Midnight was referring to:
    I used that 7 card enhance that Void did on Rarities other than Ultra Rare to see what it did and I found out that the points gained are different. That list was suppose to show a comparison of what happens. Using enhanced cards on a Common, Uncommon and Rare will make you level slower and lose points. Rare does have a hidden gain when you actually enhance the card but it is still less points than just using cards that are not enhanced. I'm still testing Super Rare but so far using enhanced cards is the same as doing cards that are not enhanced as far as points (level speed) would go and it would save on gold. Using them on Ultra Rares as Void has shown gives you a great advantage. Basically what the +9 points means is that every time you use that Level 10 card to enhance it is like you are using almost 2 more 2* cards than what you put into making it.

    Notes:
    I use terms like Level 10.20 because there are more than one Level 10 Uncommon. There is a 7 card enhance (increase to Level 10.20) and an 8 card enhance (increase to level 10.95) both giving different experience gains. Same when using 2 1* cards to top off that Uncommon to Level 10. Where the experience bar is on the card being used to enhance will adjust the experience gained.
    I use these points calculations for cards because I feel it gives a better idea of just how much better or worse using certain enhanced cards or evolved cards will be when used for enhancing. The calculations for enhanced cards and even level gains I use are not perfectly exact. They are not always whole numbers and it is hard for me to determine exactly what the value is when it falls between them, but I still feel that it is a reliable way for comparing cards being used for enhancing.

    I hope this helped make things I was trying to show a little clearer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Luteuel
    replied
    Originally posted by voidwards View Post
    The wikia is wrong and the person above me is wrong as well (unless I'm completely misunderstanding his conclusion). I have made a video that clearly demonstrates that enhancing can be better, which you can replicate in about one minute. It is uploading to youtube right now.
    what do you mean the wikia is wrong? the wikia just says how many cards at Lv 1 it takes to gain levels. it never says that that is the best way to level. Your comment is a blanket statement so please enlighten me on what you meant? It is also very player driven so it might be what you say it is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Berserk8888
    replied
    hello, I'm using your method for 2 * feeders and it works! How do you use the 1* cards? Do you use your 1*cards as feeder or you sell them?
    Originally posted by voidwards View Post
    So, after I tested this I thought I'd keep it as a little secret and only tell my guild... but the people on here don't play on my server anyway, so no point. What I found out is that most people just feed their normal 1* 2* 3* feeders to the good cards that they want to enhance, but this is a mistake. Few people know it's a mistake in terms of efficiency. Many people know that if you evolve a feeder so that it reaches T4, it will gain a star, and therefore have a much bigger feed value. But this isn't the only way to get more value out of the same amount of feeders. You can feed your feeders. One thing you will notice if you start doing this is that once you click 'enhance', the feeder that has been fed a few levels will give you more than the enhance level bar will say once the process is finished (think of the way the overleveling works, you don't see the result before you have clicked). Pay good attention to how much more you've been given after clicking enhance. Count the amount of feeders you use and test how much is ideal.

    Here's what I did to test which you can do to see for yourself. I used two boss cards (ex. Fenric) level 1 which are easy to find. I fed one Fenric 26 2* feeders total, one by one, without enhancing them. Then, I enhanced two 2* feeders with 24 other 2* feeders (12 in each, so 12+12+1+1 =26) for a total of 26 feeders, just like the previous number. I fed these 2 enhanced feeders to my second Fenric. The result? I gained, if I remember well, two and a half levels more on the second Fenric when compared to the first, with the exact same amount of feeders used.

    Note that this method will cost significantly less gold to enhance cards, because the gold price is cheaper when you are feeding 2* cards. It takes a bit more time, but it gives a lot more value. For how long this has worked, and whether it is a bug or intended, I have no clue. Also note that feeding cards into 3* feeders does not seem to work anymore in my latest tests. Better to feed 1* and 2* cards which once fed still give you more than it says before clicking enhance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Midnight Rhapsody
    replied
    Originally posted by Kidori View Post

    Uncommon Tier 1 Level 10 enhanced using 7 Uncommons (40 Points including card enhanced)
    When used to enhance different Rarities these are the results I have found:

    Rarity - Preview Lv Reached - (Actual Lv Reached) - Cards Exp Points - [Difference to Exp of Cards Used]
    Common - 9.4 (9.4) = 30 [-10]
    Uncommon - 9.4 (9.4) = 30 [-10]
    Rare - 8.3 (9.2) =37 [-3]
    Super Rare - ? (9.15) = 40 [0] ::forgot to write down what preview showed and haven't tested it again yet::
    Ultra Rare - 7.99 (9) = 49 [+9]
    Legendary - ? Unfortunately did not have one to test it on to see actual points gained

    It looks like this method works best for Ultra Rare and up.
    You typed like a professor who is writing an essay but I don't understand how you got this:
    Uncommon - 9.4 (9.4) = 30 [-10]
    It shall be lv10 by feeding 7 uncommon cards.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kidori
    replied
    I just got back from getting my foot removed from my mouth so here goes an update.

    @void: My apologies, you are absolutely right I was ignoring the video and I've done the test properly this time (and watched the video) and have seen that it is a great method. When I originally did the test it was not on an Ultra Rare so this led me to investigate it a little bit more thorough. I'm not sure if anyone made mention of this yet or not so I apologize if it is duplicate information, but here is what I found out.

    Uncommon Tier 1 Level 10 enhanced using 7 Uncommons (40 Points including card enhanced)
    When used to enhance different Rarities these are the results I have found:

    Rarity - Preview Lv Reached - (Actual Lv Reached) - Cards Exp Points - [Difference to Exp of Cards Used]
    Common - 9.4 (9.4) = 30 [-10]
    Uncommon - 9.4 (9.4) = 30 [-10]
    Rare - 8.3 (9.2) =37 [-3]
    Super Rare - ? (9.15) = 40 [0] ::forgot to write down what preview showed and haven't tested it again yet::
    Ultra Rare - 7.99 (9) = 49 [+9]
    Legendary - ? Unfortunately did not have one to test it on to see actual points gained

    It looks like this method works best for Ultra Rare and up. While Super Rare does even out, when using 6 cards to enhance instead of 7 it looks like it loses a point but I'm gonna test it a little bit more. I went through and tested a few different enhancements of the Uncommon Tier 1 card to see if there was a better option to use and this is what I came up with.

    On Ultra Rare Only
    # of Cards used to Enhance - Actual Lv Reached - (Cards Exp Points) - [Diff to Exp of Cards used] - Gold used - Gold per Point
    6 Cards = 8.30 (41) [+6] 500g = 12.20
    7 Cards = 9 (49) [+9] 1025g = 20.92
    9 Cards = 9.97 (61) [+11] 1175g = 19.26
    12 Cards = 11.3 (80) [+15] 1400g = 17.5
    15 Cards = 12.5 (96) [+16] 2275g = 23.7
    18 Cards = 13.45 (109) [+14] 2500g = 22.94
    25 Cards = 15.55 (135.5) [+5.5] 4775g* = 35.24 ::Might be 4800 forgot to write it down::

    I tried to think of a good way to measure gold and decided to base it on how much gold each point of experience is. Going by that measurement it looks as though the best balance is the 12 card enhance and the 6 card is best for gold but slower for leveling. Please feel free to test it out yourself just to make sure I didn't get confused on something. I don't need to make a Golden **** of myself again.

    I'm gonna try to look into Evos of Uncommon and then Common to see what it does and how it compares. I'll try to post when I get it figured out if I find something that works better. Since this information is missing from the Enhancement page of the Wiki it might be good to add it so others can find it when this post drops too far back in the Forums. I'm not sure I'd be the best person to add it, but I can give it a try if no one else wants to. Hopefully I would not accidentally put any inaccurate information on there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Midnight Rhapsody
    replied
    Thank you void it works great! I think it increases 25% efficiency to enhance card.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arghas
    replied
    Great thread from both sides of the coin!

    Leave a comment:


  • Makaikirai
    replied
    Just tested 42 2* feeders both ways on 2 ironbark overlords.

    Feeding 6 2* feeders to a 2* 6 times made it just over level 24 ( about 24 & 1/8th)
    Feeding 42 2* feeders individually made the other 20 & 1/2.


    This method works.

    Leave a comment:


  • Elderknight
    replied
    Thanks for the tip works great and saves me gold.

    Leave a comment:


  • voidwards
    replied
    Originally posted by SliferZor View Post
    I can tell that this guy is right and 2* cards at lvl 10 when enhanced to other card they guive the normal exp and after you enchace it gives always an extra of xp that makes it worth it... i am evolving a bit faster since i tried his method...

    Yep, the video says it all. The enhanced 2* feeders lvl 10 give a lot more than they will say on the preview. It's like overleveling with a golden ****... you need to click enhance before you see the extra that you are getting. And this extra is clearly worth it with the right amount of feeders used. It's a lot faster to evolve a perfect 8x card with this method.

    Leave a comment:


  • SliferZor
    replied
    Originally posted by voidwards View Post
    I appreciate you trying to help Kidori but you are really undermining your own efforts here by ignoring what I am posting. When you say things like "I'm just trying to let people know that enhancing cards, from what I've done so far, decreases your potential experience gained by them." it just shows that you have not paid attention to the things I have said and the video I have posted. You have done many tests but you have overlooked something which I am presenting to you here, so pay attention to it. You have direct proof that you haven't tested everything right in the video posted here. You claim if we enhance and feed it's always at a loss. I have one example (which is all it takes) to prove you wrong. An example you can replicate. Why do you choose to ignore it only to show me examples where it doesn't work? I have never claimed that you can enhance everything and gain value from it. I've only said that there is a way, and I've demonstrated it. Please address the video I have posted and tell me that I am wrong with my calculations there. The rest is irrelevant at the moment.


    TL;DR: if there is just one way to gain more value from enhancing feeders it doesn't matter that there are 99 ways in which it doesn't work. We should still use the one that works.
    I can tell that this guy is right and 2* cards at lvl 10 when enhanced to other card they guive the normal exp and after you enchace it gives always an extra of xp that makes it worth it... i am evolving a bit faster since i tried his method...

    Leave a comment:

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