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Does Kabam even play test their new combos and cards?

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  • #1

    Does Kabam even play test their new combos and cards?

    Because I have a feeling they don't do that, and it started with 7* cards and the Wraith-Kin + Skullflayer Shinobi + Ogrim + Mordred double combo.

    Since 7* cards were introduced, they all have over the top skills.
    5* and 6* cards used to have:
    - 150-175% party damage
    - 200-300% team damage
    - 200% max HP or ATK single combos (eternal evil + infernal covenant was the exception to this).
    7* have 300% party damage + stun, or 300% party damage for 3 rounds and stuff like that.

    The double combo mentioned at the start gave a total ATK of 425%. (Why did it jump to twice as much as the best 6* combos?)
    But it's worse than that. Since Kabam's formulas for PV and ATK bonus calculations multiply those bonuses (instead of adding them), those 425% were, in reality, about 1060%. This is simple math, there's no trick here.

    Wraith-Kin + Skullflayer Shinobi + Ogrim + Mordred = total atk of 169.546 (at T4/8)

    What it should be: 169.546 + (169.546 x 200%) + (169.546 x 225%) + (169.546 x 20%) = 924k ATK

    or in short, lets make it: 169.546 x (1 + 2,00 + 2,25 + 0,20) = 924k ATK

    This would be in line with the best 4 card attack combo in the game at that time, which were Penny Royalty or Spirits of Slaughter + Mordred (both around 870k ATK).

    But this is not the way Kabam's formulas work... in reality, the bonuses multiply with one another and it messes everything up.

    So, in reality, the above combo actually calculates as: 169.546 x (1+2,00) x (1+2,25) x (1+0,20) = 1.983 million atk


    There is no balance in this.
    In my opinion, this is an obvious mistake on Kabam's part. They screwed the pooch when calculating more than one combo of the same nature in one team (like pv+pv combo, or atk+atk). This is pretty clear to me.

    I reported this when this combo was introduced in game... unfortunately, like most other things, there was no official response.


    Why am I adressing this now again?
    Because with the introduction of 7* cards with unique individual combos (like Ghula's +125% HP, Maelgwn's +125% ATK, etc), it all went bananas.

    There already was a 7 million HP combo, and now there's going to be a 6 million ATK combo.

    Ghula + Arthur + King Pellinore + Sir Percival = 100% + 50% + 125% ... it should be a total of + 275% HP bonus (total of 2.8million HP), but thanks to Kabam's "little" mistake, in reality it's a 700% HP bonus (total of 5.85 million HP). Then at 20% awake bonus, there's the 7 million HP team.


    Likewise...

    Maelgwn + Valrakk + Loholt + Elidur Pendragon = 175% + 125% + 200% ... it should be a total of +500% ATK bonus (total of 1.3million ATK), but thanks to Kabam's "little" mistake, in reality it's a staggering 2130% ATK bonus (total of 4.6 million ATK). Then at 20% awake bonus, there's the 5.5 million ATK team.

    And the best 4 card single attack combo is close to 1,5 million damage (which, surprise surprise, is about the same as what the other OP combo would be if bonuses were added instead of multiplied).


    It just makes no sense. The only logical explanation I can come up for this is one: the people at Kabam who are creating these combos don't even test them before hand, because this mistake is just too big to go unnoticed.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Not enough many ask to Nerf specific card now we start asking to nerf combos and way bonuses are calculated from very beginning.
    Stop complaining and play or quit but stop complaining

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by Lavep View Post
      Not enough many ask to Nerf specific card now we start asking to nerf combos and way bonuses are calculated from very beginning.
      Stop complaining and play or quit but stop complaining
      I agree. They need to stop nerfing things. Everything they nerf turns into a useless card (and there were ways to deal with all of them). At some point they might come out with 8* cards so just because he can't get them he will complain and want them nerfed as well. Or the complete opposite he'll be able to get them all and get mad when others that can't start asking for nerfs. Your totally right just stop complaining about cards and play or move on. There are way more important things that need to be addressed and fixed before they mess with the strength of combos and cards. There are ways to deal with the combos and things you listed just stop asking for the lazy way out and figure them out, others have and do. Or the best thing for you to do is when you see the combos don't fight that guy if you don't want to try and figure out what to do.

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by ARREBIMBA View Post
        Because I have a feeling they don't do that, and it started with 7* cards and the Wraith-Kin + Skullflayer Shinobi + Ogrim + Mordred double combo.

        Since 7* cards were introduced, they all have over the top skills.
        5* and 6* cards used to have:
        - 150-175% party damage
        - 200-300% team damage
        - 200% max HP or ATK single combos (eternal evil + infernal covenant was the exception to this).
        7* have 300% party damage + stun, or 300% party damage for 3 rounds and stuff like that.

        The double combo mentioned at the start gave a total ATK of 425%. (Why did it jump to twice as much as the best 6* combos?)
        But it's worse than that. Since Kabam's formulas for PV and ATK bonus calculations multiply those bonuses (instead of adding them), those 425% were, in reality, about 1060%. This is simple math, there's no trick here.

        Wraith-Kin + Skullflayer Shinobi + Ogrim + Mordred = total atk of 169.546 (at T4/8)

        What it should be: 169.546 + (169.546 x 200%) + (169.546 x 225%) + (169.546 x 20%) = 924k ATK

        or in short, lets make it: 169.546 x (1 + 2,00 + 2,25 + 0,20) = 924k ATK

        This would be in line with the best 4 card attack combo in the game at that time, which were Penny Royalty or Spirits of Slaughter + Mordred (both around 870k ATK).

        But this is not the way Kabam's formulas work... in reality, the bonuses multiply with one another and it messes everything up.

        So, in reality, the above combo actually calculates as: 169.546 x (1+2,00) x (1+2,25) x (1+0,20) = 1.983 million atk


        There is no balance in this.
        In my opinion, this is an obvious mistake on Kabam's part. They screwed the pooch when calculating more than one combo of the same nature in one team (like pv+pv combo, or atk+atk). This is pretty clear to me.

        I reported this when this combo was introduced in game... unfortunately, like most other things, there was no official response.


        Why am I adressing this now again?
        Because with the introduction of 7* cards with unique individual combos (like Ghula's +125% HP, Maelgwn's +125% ATK, etc), it all went bananas.

        There already was a 7 million HP combo, and now there's going to be a 6 million ATK combo.

        Ghula + Arthur + King Pellinore + Sir Percival = 100% + 50% + 125% ... it should be a total of + 275% HP bonus (total of 2.8million HP), but thanks to Kabam's "little" mistake, in reality it's a 700% HP bonus (total of 5.85 million HP). Then at 20% awake bonus, there's the 7 million HP team.


        Likewise...

        Maelgwn + Valrakk + Loholt + Elidur Pendragon = 175% + 125% + 200% ... it should be a total of +500% ATK bonus (total of 1.3million ATK), but thanks to Kabam's "little" mistake, in reality it's a staggering 2130% ATK bonus (total of 4.6 million ATK). Then at 20% awake bonus, there's the 5.5 million ATK team.

        And the best 4 card single attack combo is close to 1,5 million damage (which, surprise surprise, is about the same as what the other OP combo would be if bonuses were added instead of multiplied).


        It just makes no sense. The only logical explanation I can come up for this is one: the people at Kabam who are creating these combos don't even test them before hand, because this mistake is just too big to go unnoticed.
        Where did u get information about new combo with Elidur?

        Comment

        • #5
          I have to agree with arrebimba. Since they nerfed Uther (what I didn´t support) because he was said to be OP, they also should fix this combo multiplier bug cause it leads to even more OP teams. Personally I don´t care if an attack team has 2 mio ATK or 5 mio, because this means sudden death to most of my team variations, and the only answer is 4 revive or rev+reflect. But to be honest these mentioned teams are really ridiculous...

          Comment

          • #6
            Yeah was running some numbers on upcoming attacks combos and there is a group of them that boost attack to 14 million, unmodified. 17 mil with the party bonuses and when the team goes below 50% health. 17 million attack. insane. Get your reflect ready.

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by AtomicDoom View Post
              I agree. They need to stop nerfing things. Everything they nerf turns into a useless card (and there were ways to deal with all of them). At some point they might come out with 8* cards so just because he can't get them he will complain and want them nerfed as well. Or the complete opposite he'll be able to get them all and get mad when others that can't start asking for nerfs. Your totally right just stop complaining about cards and play or move on. There are way more important things that need to be addressed and fixed before they mess with the strength of combos and cards. There are ways to deal with the combos and things you listed just stop asking for the lazy way out and figure them out, others have and do. Or the best thing for you to do is when you see the combos don't fight that guy if you don't want to try and figure out what to do.
              It's not a matter of having or not having the cards.

              It's a matter of keeping the game balanced and if there are mistakes or bugs, fix it. That's it.

              Shouldn't 100+100+100 = 300 ? Because, right now, 100+100+100=900 and that's not right and promotes unbalance.

              Why don't you want a balanced game?

              Comment

              • #8
                Imo we are playing hoc 2.0 which extremely underrates any deck we had in the past 2 years. With the release of new 7* cards with overwhelming abilities, Kabam is basically cleaning the slate for all and forcing us to start again new so as to promote more spending. Fallen Vamb pales in comparison to the combos we now have in hand. And he is outdated considering the current meta and plethora of cards and combos getting released every new city event. So, its basically you either have these mythic cards or you don't. Kabam follows the same old strategy of giving 1 card free and putting the other card in gems so that players pay to complete the combo. And top spenders wont let anyone beat their deck. So they spend as much as possible to get ahead of the pack. You say uther is OP, spenders spend enough so that they can survive whatever the opponent's uther can deal and he still win comfortably. But, who feel they have been slapped? Those who have spent to get the best decks till 3 months ago. Their money is literally wasted As those decks doesnt hold a value wrt to the current pool of cards that we have. But, the best way is to ADAPT or you perish and leave the game. Do not complain about something because you can't deal with it. Think of ways of surviving and you will do well. Have a good day.

                Comment

                • #9
                  I don't feel like I've been slapped and I'm not a spender and never have been.
                  While I do feel sorry for those who wasted their money on top decks up until 2-3 months ago, I understand Kabam has to keep pushing the game forward. 7* will naturally be much stronger than 6* just like 6* were much stronger than 5*. Some 6* will still get some play time in top decks (like Vambrael Fallen, Ogrim or Skullflayer Shinobi), but most will just vanish.
                  And that's ok. I get that. It's normal.

                  But that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about balance and making sure 1+1=2, not 1+1=5 which is what's happening today in every team with 2 or more combos os the same nature (hp+hp or atk+atk).

                  Whoever is in charge of combos and card design is surely not aware of this error in their formula. That's what I believe and the proof is that there is not a 4 card combo with 1000% or 2000% HP or ATK bonus (which would be on par with the top multi combo teams we have today).

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ARREBIMBA View Post
                    But that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about balance and making sure 1+1=2, not 1+1=5 which is what's happening today in every team with 2 or more combos os the same nature (hp+hp or atk+atk).

                    Whoever is in charge of combos and card design is surely not aware of this error in their formula. That's what I believe and the proof is that there is not a 4 card combo with 1000% or 2000% HP or ATK bonus (which would be on par with the top multi combo teams we have today).
                    Why do u think it's an error ? It has been calculated like that since hoc was released. Aaron himself commented on that. Why change the formula now ? I don't understand your stand ...

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Because it's unbalanced and unlogic that 1+1=5.

                      The only way it was balanced is if 4 card combos would get around the same % bonus (like 1500% ATK bonus, instead of 200%).
                      But even then, although it would be balanced, 1+1=5 would still be unlogical.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Fatality1994 View Post
                        Why do u think it's an error ? It has been calculated like that since hoc was released. Aaron himself commented on that. Why change the formula now ? I don't understand your stand ...
                        Exactly fata, we've made it this far with very little complaints and like I said there are way more problems these guys need to deal with! I like the people who have been around a short time and didn't actually read everything in the forums who think they know what the game needs! A lot of people are going to hate me for what I say next but it's true. We don't need a new event soon, we don't need new content soon, we don't need new promos hourly , we need kabam to take a month off from new stuff and actually fix the old bugs in this game. That's what they need to do. If this game was not as buggy as it is it would be a very actively played game. I know a lot of people who left this game since the beginning and only maybe 10% of them (if that) were because of imbalance the other 90% were due to bugs and cheaters and kabam not fixing the bugs or dealing with the cheaters. Sure there are super strong cards and combos but like I said figure out a way to deal with them, either skip the fight or play with your cards, I beat guys with an adverage deck that have 2-3,000,000 hp teams and no not with just uther either!

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          I completely agree with you atomic. We DO NOT need a new event each month, we need to fix the issues that has been plaguing us all these years. Allow me to take you 2 years back from now. Between the first city event boss Shiverheart and the next city event boss Pestilence, there was a gap of around 6 months. But, yes, we used to play daily during those days. Good Super Arenas and nice flash arenas eg. 10k 2 azarel Arena, Sun Mage Arena and stuff. During those days I used to play daily. And now, I only "play" 2-3 days a month i.e. the first 2-3 days of city event. I get my boss I wait for the next boss and the monthly summon storm. I have drastically reduced my attention that I used to give to HOC. Because these bugs still remain. I don't care about city events, I dont care about new cards or combos. But, fix the arenas first. Make it more interesting, right, Oss weekly, galzra weekly, so interesting arenas. Where is sick duck ? here is your arena Jokes aside, pay attention to what's important to keep your players. You f**tards pay attention to what fills your coffers, release city events, release gem packs, suck the players of their money and after 5-6 months make those cards useless and the cycle continues. Good thing I'm not a p2p because im sure I wouldn't have lasted under such "treatment" kabam gives to its players. I would have left long ago. As I don't spend, I accept everything they do as a gift and try to play to the best of my ability. Anyways, pendragons here I come.....

                          P.S. Grumpy Old Fata

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            At least we all agree on that: what this game needs the most is for Kabam to fix HOC's bugs.

                            That's exactly why I made this topic. That is my desire as well. That's my focus.
                            Fix these formulas for multiple combos in one team.
                            Fix the GK vanishing bug.
                            Fix the dozens of guild and guild war bugs.
                            Eliminate botters and speed hack users from this game and fix what holes need to be fixed to prevent them coming back (but at least ban them while the bugs are still not fixed).
                            Etc etc.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ARREBIMBA View Post
                              At least we all agree on that: what this game needs the most is for Kabam to fix HOC's bugs.

                              That's exactly why I made this topic. That is my desire as well. That's my focus.
                              Fix these formulas for multiple combos in one team.
                              Fix the GK vanishing bug.
                              Fix the dozens of guild and guild war bugs.
                              Eliminate botters and speed hack users from this game and fix what holes need to be fixed to prevent them coming back (but at least ban them while the bugs are still not fixed).
                              Etc etc.
                              Now I fully agree with you except for the card and combo thing, I was a spender that changed to a f2p guy over a year ago (the op cards are the only thing keeping me afloat in this sinking ship) and it was only for the fact they don't fix bugs or deal with cheaters how they should (yes I've seen cheaters banned but I see them back with in a couple weeks or so on the same account, that account should be deleted not given back), I'd spend hundreds a week like others if the games bugs were taken care of in a reasonable amount of time but they don't. This game has the potential to be a top 10 app game if they actually kept the bugs down to a minimal (or at least fixed the ones already there) but because they don't so it's not even a top 100 game anymore.

                              Comment

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